Use of electronic targetry on MOD ranges now banned

[Ginger]

How about we leave the NRA bashing to one side at the moment and see what Iain can find out when he returns to the office on Tuesday.

You could have tried this first, finding out the situation from the MoD Range, and then try Calling the NRA rather than just posting your grievance on here and getting people all hot and bothered under the collar.

NRA Range up north, lovely idea, but there are plenty of longer ranges up north and no matter where it is located it will not be in the right place for some people. Personally I live over 2hrs away from Bisley and yes the M25 etc is a real PITA but I live with it, its all part of the day out and social event.

The NRA's funds don't seem to be able to stretch to running two large ranges and insurance etc, which again I accept is a pain but one is better than none, and if you are member of the NRA up north you get all the legal protection / advice but its a pain to get to the mothership (Bisley), I know to use the facilities you have paid for.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a big fan of the NRA and I think they should 'practice what they preach', which I have been a witness on two occasions that they don't but they are the best we have.

[ovenpaa]

NRA is most certainly not 100% Bisley centric and I am sure they would be more than happy to go further afield given the chance. The problem is they have been dogged with poor decision making and finances for the past few years compounded by general lack of interest in shooting here in the UK. The good news is they look to be coming out of the doldrums now however unless they can gain support from the British non filed sport related shooting community as a whole they are going to have to make the best of what they have which is one ground SW of London.

The new CEO looks to be doing a good job and came up for an evening meeting with my club only a few days ago, such meetings can only raise the profile of the NRA and as such must be a good thing regardless of the meeting content. The down side is too many shooters are not prepared to support the NRA which means they are on a hiding to nothing and we will never see new NRA sponsored ranges in other regions of the UK. Right now the UK shooters are looking to save every penny they can on shooting as it is an incredibly costly sport and if shooters look solely to their own interests as opposed to that of the sport as a whole both the NRA and ultimately our shooting is doomed.

If the NRA is not to someone taste then they can either leave or do not bother joining in the first place however kicking it at any and every opportunity is counter productive and is not going to advance things nor bring us a more settled community. Personally I have some doubts as to the NRA's current ability to lead the shooting community however the alternative national bodies are not much better.

EDIT - You beat me to it Ginger

[Thorney]

Why can't the NRA set up another site elsewhere?

I'm currently in the throws of an application to build a shooting range in the midlands and take it from me the planning to get a rifle range is nigh on impossible (not impossible but very hard work). The attitude from planning people is simply anti gun, there is no other phrase for it and we have had every possible barrier put in our way in our application and this is for a small .22 only range. Ultimately we will be successful but after what we've been through I'd be surprised if anyone saw it through to the end.

[Fedaykin]

Pretty much agree Ovenpaa but I do feel that the NRA should actively help attempts at setting up facilities that are more northerly even if it is technical rather then financial.

Also the SLR issue is a big thing for me, the NRA supported the ban and I feel if they are to clear the air they should publicly apologise to the part of the shooting community who lost their part of the sport and promise to actively campaign for its restoration alongside pistols. A long shot in the current political climate but I would feel far happier giving them my money if they at least apologised for what they did. Supporting an entire class of rifles to be deleted despite the enquiry after Hungerford clearly stating rate of fire played no part in the incident gives me a bad taste in the mouth.

As pointed out the new CEO appears to be doing a far better job which gives me hope but the reason they get a knocking is the bridges they have burnt by selling out on members of the UK shooting community because what they shot didn't fall into what is perceived as right at Bisley. The new CEO needs to put effort into mending those bridges, the first step is a clear statement of apology for the past deeds and a commitment to at least support any campaign for restoration (even if it is a bit forlorn).

[Alpha1]

Its true I am afraid I turned up at the range this morning and was told that we are not allowed to use the electronic targets any more because we are a Civilian Gun club. I put together a MTM type stick in target and stapled a target to it then paced off 100 yards and stuck it in the ground and spent the day shooting at it. I had a chat to one of the officials from BASC he does not think there is any way back the issue has all ready being agreed. I would be interested in any information the NRA has on this matter.
6.5x55 using a Kahles scope is not much of a challenge at 100 yards.

[Blu]

Hopefully this is a local issue because of the new target system on the ranges Alpha1 shoots on. I realize the implications for sportsmen/'women if this is a nation wide ban and no I wasn't being mischievous. If anything I was having a go at Alpha1, Mr I don't care about the pistol ban as long as it doesn't affect me. Well now it does affect you so maybe now you'll get on board and fight for what you want regardless of the type of discipline involved. And that doesn't just apply to Alpha one either.

Blu

[Alpha1]

I wont be fighting to over turn the Pistol Ban in the UK because as I have all ready stated it is a waste of time and I don't understand what that as got to do with this issue. I think enough has been said on that subject there was a long drawn out thread discussing the issue we don't need to go back over it. I have raised my concerns about Civilians not being able to use electronic targets and the lack of information to Clubs leading up to it. So if it is only a local issue affecting the North East that's OK is it. You don't even Live in the UK so what are you so concerned about.

Oh and the Pistol Ban as I said before did affect me it affected me a lot I was right in the middle of it. I fully understand the circumstances surrounding the pistol ban I was there. Not that old conker again.

[dromia]

How about we leave the NRA bashing to one side at the moment and see what Iain can find out when he returns to the office on Tuesday.

You could have tried this first, finding out the situation from the MoD Range, and then try Calling the NRA rather than just posting your grievance on here and getting people all hot and bothered under the collar.

NRA Range up north, lovely idea, but there are plenty of longer ranges up north and no matter where it is located it will not be in the right place for some people. Personally I live over 2hrs away from Bisley and yes the M25 etc is a real PITA but I live with it, its all part of the day out and social event.

The NRA's funds don't seem to be able to stretch to running two large ranges and insurance etc, which again I accept is a pain but one is better than none, and if you are member of the NRA up north you get all the legal protection / advice but its a pain to get to the mothership (Bisley), I know to use the facilities you have paid for.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a big fan of the NRA and I think they should 'practice what they preach', which I have been a witness on two occasions that they don't but they are the best we have.

I raised this issue with the NRA before Christmas we were on the same range as Alpha1 was on today and I was told the same, again.

I was shooting at Catterick also today, not booked on for electronic targetry but using the target frames. Access gates were locked due to pot holes in the road, some frames weren't working, firing pits filled with water, note books to be torn up for patches, range comms, firing point to butts, intermittent at best. All this is reported every shoot but nothing gets done. Asked about the future of the frames and targets he said that he thought that some would be maintained but wasn't sure as he was new.

It is not just ranges that are problem it is range availability, yes there are ranges in the North but none operate like Bisley where you can book targets and markers on your own seven days a week. That is the great flexibility of Bisley. To use the MoD ranges you have to be a club, so that means most ranges are booked at weekends as most club members work during the week. If your club is lucky it may be able to afford and get one range a month, this si more likely to be 9 or 10 a year with last minute cancellations by Landmarc or your booking not having been passed onto the range, that happened today the range office had no record of our booking, it was sorted but that ate into our range time, so say 10 range days a year you cna easily loose a couple due to bad weather, our January shoot was called off because of mist and you couldn't see the targets at 100yrds let alone the flag so that is your down to 8 range days for the club alone add to that that you will loose another couple due to your own domestic commitments holiday and the like and most full bore shooters up here are lucky to get 6-8 full bore shoots a year in. not much if want to be serious competitor or just keep your skill level up as once these days are lost you cannot easily make them up your are held hostage to other peoples booking agenda Bisley shooters have no such restrictions. to get more shoots you can join more clubs but that puts up the cost and your end up with double insurance etc, which isn't cost effective for the shooter. Travel isn't really an issue as we all have to do it where I was today is one hour fifteen minutes from me each way. I also shoot at Diggle which is two hours twenty minutes for me.

The NRA is of no real help as they are on their knees and have little resources, their focus is Bisley as their major asset and no doubt want to get it paying however that is of little use to the non Bisley shooters. Many people do not join the NRA because they are subsidising Bisley. All the staff are there they put training courses on at Bisley and use staff time to do so, if we want to run regional training courses then we have to do all the leg work in setting up the facilities and the NRA provide the trainers. This really pees people up here off. Also the NRA don't respond well to members queries, I'm still awaiting a reply to an email to the chief exec from last year about the airgun proposals in Scotland I'm also awaiting a reply to an email sent last month to a fellow called Blackmore about how to contact the regional training officers that we were told about in the last e newsletter. I'm pleased to see that the CE has ventured outside Bisley and visited a club but as yet I am not aware of any plans for him to visit the North.

This isn't intended to knock the NRA just to explain that if you don't shoot at Bisley then the NRA is of no real significance, it has little in the way of resources which at the end of the day is down to the organisations own mismanagement. It seems to have no sway with the MoD or Landmarc which are of key importance to us up here. There is a membership fee which is worth every penny if you can book Targets at Bisley but not worth the money and really just expensive, albeit good insurance.

Whilst having sympathy with the plight of the NRA and lot of respect for some of the individuals that work there they seem to be at best reactive to shooting needs outside Bisley. We are in time of cost cutting change and turmoil with our military and the fall out of that is being felt by civilian clubs now.

I don't think the NRA can do much to help it is too late and they are seen as of no significance by the MoD and Landmarc, much more and shooting full bore out to 600 yrds will be a thing of the past in the north and Bisley truly will be the centre of shooting by default.

[dromia]

Blu many of us would put time in to help challenge the situation, letters to MPs etc but the real weakness for shooters in the UK is lack of leadership and co-ordination. One naturally looks to or "national" bodies on this but it is sorely lacking not just now but in the past, shooters perhaps could make difference if mobilised but there is no one at present to do that.

[Blu]

Alpha1.

I wont be fighting to over turn the Pistol Ban in the UK because as I have all ready stated it is a waste of time and I don't understand what that as got to do with this issue.

You just don't get it do you? You just don't get that slowly but surely anything to do with shooting be it pistol, rifle or shotgun is slowly being taken away from you in one sneaky form or another. You won't be fighting to overturn the pistol ban, I'll bet though if others fought for it and it was repealed you wouldn't be unhappy.

So will you be fighting to have something done about this latest grab at your chosen sport? My point is you don't give a toss just as long as it doesn't affect you, well now it does so what are you going to do about it? It doesn't matter where I live old son, like you I shoot but unlike you I do give a toss when I read or hear about stuff like this happening despite the geography between us. I care because it's just another grab at restricting and possibly doing away with your chosen sport and sitting on your ass whining about it won't change anything.

As I said earlier it may be a local issue because of the new range build, lets hope so as it may make the fight to have it overturned a little easier. Best wait until Iain gets back to work and see if he finds out anything on it with regards to being a local or national issue.

Blu