legal question for every shooter

[Chuck]

Yep, you would strictly be in possession of a firearm without certification. However, I reckon you would have a defence under common law as opposed to statutory.

A defence under common sense would be much more sensible but that doesn't happen much these days. The bloke picking up a gun and handing it in is a good example...

[ovenpaa]

Slightly OT...

I had a call from someone we know the other day, his friend has his Grandfathers service Webley from WWI, apparently it is a bit the worse for wear these days with a damaged cylinder and barrel however it has always been handed down through the family and he now looks after it, he also understands the issues of ownership in its current state as it is S5. Could I help? Nope was the easy answer as it is S5 and my concern was if it was handed into the police it would be destroyed. The family would like to hold onto it albeit in a deactivated would be acceptable.

A call to the London Proof house helped as they made a couple of very sensible suggestions.

the point is not every person with a firearm not on their ticket is a criminal looking for an opportunity, there are very good reasons at the time for being in possession of an un-licenced firearm however all of the reasons are ultimately illegal in the eyes of the law and this is something we have to be very careful about especially as FAC holders.

[the running man]

As long as someone at the range secured it then it wouldn't be an issue for me. This is why ranges have ROs and various guidelines. So that if anyone does make a daft, non malicous, mistake it can be picked up and dealt with. I'll bet they would never forget it again!! Oh the shame!

All well and good if you all leave together, if the carless person leaves its gun there half way through the day then you are still presented with a situation, are you breaking any laws by withholding from the police the fact that said person has breached the firearms act?????

[Sim G]

I recall a thread on here a while back about a fella who found a shotgun at the bottom of his garden. He picked it up and took it to the cop shop, cops told him he should have called it in and let them lift it, there was some talk of him getting into trouble over it. So I guess legally, the correct thing to do is call the cops if it isn't yours. Not saying it's the right thing to do, just that it may be the legal thing to do.

Blu

The gentleman in question was in possession of a sawn off shotgun. When caught with it, he claimed he'd found it in the garden and was going to hand it in. He stated himself he'd "found" it several days before hand. Possession is an absolute offence, but, there is a defence of necessity had, on discovery, taken it to a police station. Remaining in possession for a number of days after the event, negates this defence.

[Sim G]

are you breaking any laws by withholding from the police the fact that said person has breached the firearms act?????

No. You are not under any obligation to report a "crime". There are a few exceptions under the road traffic act and others. But generally, no.

[Demonic69]

Not a problem, just read the regs:
"18.2 Members of a rifle club, miniature rifle
club or muzzle-loading pistol club approved
by the Secretary of State or the Scottish
Ministers may, without holding firearm
certificates, have in their possession firearms
and ammunition when engaged as members
in, or in connection with, target shooting
(section 15(1) of the 1988 Act as amended
by section 45 of the 1997 Act). It should be
noted that section 15(1) does not stipulate
that the firearms must be club firearms. It is
lawful for a member of an approved club to
possess temporarily a firearm belonging to
another person for target shooting as a
member of the club."

Your definition of "unattended" may differ from theirs, I'd assume leaving a rifle at the range would be safe as it should only be occupied by members or visitors accompanied by members.
“Firearms and shot guns to which this
certificate relates must be stored
securely at all times (except in certain
circumstances) so as to prevent, so far
as is reasonably practicable, access to
the guns by unauthorised persons.”

From your comments TRM I'm assuming you're in the "String them up" camp? What rules are they breaching according to the act?

[the running man]

Im not in any camp! Its a completely hypothetical situation that came about whilst we are editing our clubs long standing and out of date range orders..

Just to make the point nobody has left a gun behind, purely the what if's.

Sim g I take on board your comments as I do d69's and yes I agree you are all there u discover a gun that belongs to nobody present then you should be ok untill you call them up and tell them, (although i wouldent be sure about that) what happens if its the morning and the guns been there all night? clear violation , just how do you cover yourself or your club/organisation ? What happens if sombody nicks it? And the owner says well I left it at the range! Or would that be a bridge to cross should you come to it? All I wanna know is if we as clubmates of a forgetfull fellow clubmate would be liable in any way if we never repoted a clear firearms law breach?

Iian wr any chance of clearing this up?

[Rearlugs]

I recall a thread on here a while back about a fella who found a shotgun at the bottom of his garden. He picked it up and took it to the cop shop, cops told him he should have called it in and let them lift it, there was some talk of him getting into trouble over it. So I guess legally, the correct thing to do is call the cops if it isn't yours. Not saying it's the right thing to do, just that it may be the legal thing to do.

Blu

There was a huge initially unreported background story to that - i.e. that he had a record and it was widely believed by those in a position to know that he didn't just "find" it....


I can't imagine anyone getting into trouble for picking up an unattended weapon and getting it secured, albeit that would in theory be unauthorised possession. Makes you wonder what the case is when a butts party leaves their rifles on the point in the care of the RCO and their fellow club members. I'm the only person I know who takes their rifles into the butt each time; people think thats because I'm old soldier with military habits...

[Sim G]

All I wanna know is if we as clubmates of a forgetfull fellow clubmate would be liable in any way if we never repoted a clear firearms law breach?

In my opinion, no.

[Blackstuff]

Im not in any camp! Its a completely hypothetical situation that came about whilst we are editing our clubs long standing and out of date range orders..

Just to make the point nobody has left a gun behind, purely the what if's.

Sim g I take on board your comments as I do d69's and yes I agree you are all there u discover a gun that belongs to nobody present then you should be ok untill you call them up and tell them, (although i wouldent be sure about that) what happens if its the morning and the guns been there all night? clear violation , just how do you cover yourself or your club/organisation ? What happens if sombody nicks it? And the owner says well I left it at the range! Or would that be a bridge to cross should you come to it? All I wanna know is if we as clubmates of a forgetfull fellow clubmate would be liable in any way if we never repoted a clear firearms law breach?

Iian wr any chance of clearing this up?

Agree with SimG, as long as no harm has been done there's no need to report the 'crime' to the authorities, it should be dealt with in house and the club secretary should be issuing a bollocking to the owner and the RO.

IF the gun was stolen then IMO the owner is on their own and in trouble. Depending on the circumstances/range procedures the RO would also be in the do-do.