Pistol calibre rifles and FAC query

[Primer]

Hi all,


Just about to put in for my FAC and have just a couple of quick queries before i send the paperwork off:

The club i shoot at has a 25 & 50m rimfire & pistol calibre range and also a 100m fullbore range (all indoor) and i’m just wondering if there is an economical pistol calibre rifle i should also look at?

Currently on my list i have the following:

.22 rimfire bolt action (target shooting) + moderator

.22 rimfire semi auto (target shooting and practical shooting) + moderator

.22 rimfire LBP (target shooting and practical shooting)

.303 rifle (target shooting)

.308 rifle (target shooting) + moderator

Shotgun (for practical shooting)

Ammo wise

.22LR - Purchase 2,000 - Hold 2,500

.303 - Purchase 250 -Hold 300

.308 -Purchase 250 -Hold 300

12g Slug –Purchase 250 -Hold 300

Do these amounts look ok?

Avon & Somerset police have a requirement that you have an intruder alarm fitted to your house should you have 6 or more shotguns/firearms on the premises, however there is nothing to say what spec of alarm they require you to have as currently i have a wireless alarm system i fitted myself that has PIR’s/door breaks fitted, will this be acceptable, as i will be over the 6 as i currently already have 2 shotguns but they will be in a separate cabinet ?

Thanks in advance

Simon

[dromia]

Welcome to the forum!

Why don't you take the time to introduce yourself on the New Members Forum.

As the alarm requirement is arbitrary to your licensing authority it would be best to ask them what they deem acceptable.

[Dangermouse]

Avon & Somerset police have a requirement that you have an intruder alarm fitted to your house should you have 6 or more shotguns/firearms on the premises

For some that kind of behaviour (theirs not yours) is a red flag to a bull. You could be militant and state that they can not demand such a thing and that you will see them in court - but they rely on us all being law abiding people and doing as they suggest. Good luck on that front.

Re ammunition, after a scan of your list I think that you are selling yourself short - even if you realistically do not see yourself ever needing more.
With the .22 you are in the right area, it can be cheaper to buy bulk loads, you are looking to feed a few firearms and many target shooters will argue that you will want a pallet all of the same serial number for consistency.
But with the full bore and slug ammunition I would talk some more with the more active shooters at your club and see what they have on their tickets. Ammunition is not always readily available, even at the bigger ranges, so you want to make sure that you have enough for a few shoots in advance. Also if you get in to any kind of competition shooting you can easily see yourself shooting 100 rounds a day. Combine that with a practise session before and you will be dangerously close to your limits.
There is also the possibility that you may get into home loading at some time in the future. With that you have to be carefully not to go over your "to hold" limits. Also you may get the chance from time to time to have ammunition come your way - you don't want to have to turn it down.

Of course it is all down to yourself, but I would be inclined to be asking for several hundred to keep and 500 to purchase for the rifle calibres.

DM

[Dave 101]

Hi Simon

Mods for target shooting doesnt always go hand in hand with FEOs , people quote its a H&S issue but unless everyone on the range uses one it negates the arguement .
I would up your .303 requirement to at least 500 , its easier to negotiate down then the FEO feels as though he has won the day , I cant see you getting that much RF .22 though , but if you dont ask then you wont know . Theres also the possibility they wont pass that many firearms in one go either for a new shooter .

Dave

[Primer]

[quote="Dangermouse]
Of course it is all down to yourself, but I would be inclined to be asking for several hundred to keep and 500 to purchase for the rifle calibres.

DM[/quote]

Thanks for the info DM, is that seven hundred to keep and 500 hundred to purchase?

Also i just remembered there is a question on form 646 (request for additional information) which is signed by my club but there is a question on there that asks 'do you load your own ammunition', should i say yes as i may in the future or no as i dont currently?

[ovenpaa]

Welcome Simon, I agree with DM, and would suggest 600/500 for the .303 and .308 and do ask for 7,62x51/.308 both for rifle and ammunition. Unless you are sharing access with someone for the Shotguns you can keep them all in one cabinet however watch out as many '7 gun' cabinets are quite tight so you may end up with two cabinets regardless.

No idea on the GR front but we have a few aficionados of the discipline on the forum.

[Primer]

Hi Simon

Mods for target shooting doesnt always go hand in hand with FEOs , people quote its a H&S issue but unless everyone on the range uses one it negates the arguement .
I would up your .303 requirement to at least 500 , its easier to negotiate down then the FEO feels as though he has won the day , I cant see you getting that much RF .22 though , but if you dont ask then you wont know . Theres also the possibility they wont pass that many firearms in one go either for a new shooter .

Dave

Thanks Dave,

My club owner suggested putting the mods on, i know when he put in for planning originally when they opened and recently for the 100m the only objection received was from a local who reckoned it is/would be too noisy, even though when noise asessments were done they had to give up as there was more noise from the road that the complainer lived by then there was from the range, so i guess he is playing it safe and may need to introduce mods to everyone if they get complaints.

As regards the .22 ammo, i can easily go through 500 rounds in a session depending what i'm shooting, plus they will be used in 3 of the firearms i am asking for so hopefully i can get near that, especially as the cheaper ammo sellers tend to be a bit of a drive away and i could easily save £20 per 1,000 on rimfire compared to what the club charges.

As to the amount i have listed for firearms, i was tempted with more as reading a few posts on here some have had quite a few allowed but in reality i could reduce it by a couple as i was just trying to save on money and time for putting in for variations at a later date.

Thanks

[Dangermouse]

I would say no to re loading at this time, however a covering letter for the points raised dose not go amiss - they can alway signore it!

With your first application it does not do any harm to be over ambitious after all to change it afterwards will cost you money.
The FET will be use to seeing people being over ambitious and will discuss your requirements with you before issuing your FAC. You need to enter that discussion quite clear re what you would like and what you actually need.
As a shotgun owner you will not be completely new to the whole concept and I guess that you have had similar meetings in the past.
There is no reason why you should not get a FAC, just what is on it is what will be discussed.

Be realistic re moderators, they can actually be quite expensive for some calibres although I will accept that .22 moderators can be a lot cheaper. I believe that should you use the same moderator on all your .22 firearms then you would need to have your ticket quite clear re which can have it on - possibly listing one for each .22?
Health and safety is a common reason given but also do not forget that they can manage recoil to some extent. Should you be in any kind of work that is a noisy environment you could add that as a contributing factor.

Re home loading, again discuss it with your FET. You can mention that you do not at the moment but you have talked with people who do and the idea is appealing to you but you want to take it one step at a time. You can mention the rising cost in ammunition and that you wish to keep your costs down. You can also waffle that you understand that many people re load during the quite spells of the year, for me the winter months as my loft gets too hot in the summer, and stock up for the summer season. Certainly 500 - 700 in my eyes is not excessive, but will depend on how active you become. Also do some research in to the availability of ammunition in your area. The war in Afghanistan has hit stocks in the UK badly and sometimes it is a case of if you can find it you buy as much as you can.

Don't be scared of your FET, he will know what can and can not be done, he will just want to check your needs out before handing the certificate over.

DM

[Primer]

Welcome Simon, I agree with DM, and would suggest 600/500 for the .303 and .308 and do ask for 7,62x51/.308 both for rifle and ammunition. Unless you are sharing access with someone for the Shotguns you can keep them all in one cabinet however watch out as many '7 gun' cabinets are quite tight so you may end up with two cabinets regardless.

No idea on the GR front but we have a few aficionados of the discipline on the forum.

Thanks,

Yeah i share the shotgun cabinet with my other half but she didn't want to apply for FAC.

7,62x51/.308 is this because even though the same round, rifles could be described as either?

[Dangermouse]

Not necessarily the same round but yes you could be looking for a one and find the other stamped on it. Also some ammunition will be marked in one and not the other, you do not want to be stooped with the wrong one by a Officer who does not know what he is looking at.

You can fire 7.62 in .308 but should be more carefull in doing it the other way round. I believe there is a poster up in the range office at Bisley stating that .308 should not be shot in 7.62 rifles, possibly being specific to Enfields - or perhaps I am making that bit up.

Interestingly it is the other way round for .223 and 5.56. In that case, no pun intended, it is the 5.56 that has higher pressures.

DM