Custom cases

[majordisorder]

So after much thought about my .45ACP bolt action rifle project I'm thinking that a bit more welly in my loads might be a good thing and offer some more flexibility. It was Sandgroper who first mentioned a case called the .460 Rowland and I came across it again yesterday whilst surfing some of the US reloading sites. Given it can push a 230 grn bullet @ around 1300fps rather than the 900 or so with the ACP it looks like fun

It's essentially the same case as the .45 ACP apart from it's 0.067 of an inch longer (or thereabouts) than a standard .45 ACP. Despite the case being longer the OAL is the same as a .45ACP.

To me (a complete reloading newbie) this means that the only difference is that the Rowland will not fit in a standard .45ACP chamber and must just be a bit sturdier in construction to handle the extra pressure. In fact that's the only difference mentioned on the Rowland website so this got me thinking what if I cut down the .460 Rowland to standard .45ACP case length I'm assuming:

1) That this would make no difference to the pressure in the Rowland when loaded to "Rowland" spec as the bullet would just be seated less deep and still be the same OAL.
2) Means I can keep the gun chambered to .45 ACP and shoot both loads which I wouldn't be able to do if I chambered the gun to 460 Rowland.
3) I just buy a case trimmer and "knock a bit off" each of the Rowland cases and I'll be good to go with a considerably higher velocity (just need to make sure I don't mix up the weaker ACP cases)

Discuss

[Alpha1]

Why do you need a bit more welly in your loads.
More welly does not equate to more accuracy just makes a bigger bang and heavier recoil.?

[majordisorder]

Why do you need a bit more welly in your loads.
More welly does not equate to more accuracy just makes a bigger bang and heavier recoil.?

Thinking that it'll allow me to shoot out to longer ranges with a bit less of the looping trajectory of the ACP whilst still being able to use the ACP indoors

[Sandgroper]

Have you been reading my mind? :shifty: I didn't want to mention this idea as it could be construed as a bad practice due to the reasons behind the design of the 460 Rowland.

The 460 Rowland was made longer so it could not be chambered in weaker 45 ACP - 45 Super pistols. It was based on the 451 Detonics round http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w451det.html. So as long as you don't have a firearm (unlikely in the UK) that is only suitable for those lower pressure rounds you should be OK. If you go down this route (as I might) I would only buy 460 Rowland brass and trim to size to avoid the risk of overloading weaker brass.

By shortening the 460 Rowland you are making a Wildcat. In effect you're making a 45 Super+P round. You couldn't have it proofed as 460 Rowland be cause the chamber would be too short. If you proof at the lower 45 Super level, you'd still be running a theoretical risk because you're firing higher pressure rounds. This could make resale iffy due to the potential for accidents to happen - especially due to the potential of confusion due to the available brass and the different pressures.

Potential problems for yourself could stem from the thickness/strength of the brass at the mouth of the case after trimming. It might be need ID reaming to enable seating the bullet. Due to the higher pressures of the 460 Rowland, you might find that at 45 ACP pressures there is poor sealing of the case in the chamber.

If you're really wanting to push the boat out you could look at the

45 Winchester Magnum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Winchester_Magnum
450 Bushmaster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.450_Bushmaster
458 SOCOM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_SOCOM

I'm sure there's a couple more I missed but you get the picture - my choice would be 458 SOCOM.

[ovenpaa]

If you go down the wildcat avenue then you can truly specify exactly what you want and name it accordingly which is how the Viking gets to shoot a 22Christel which is also listed as a cartridge on the Police firearms system.

So you could actually end up with a .46Disorder tongueout

Downside is the Proof House seem to delight in pocketing handfuls of your brass when the firearm is poofed.

[Sandgroper]

Downside is the Proof House seem to delight in pocketing handfuls of your brass when the firearm is poofed.

Is that what happens when the Proof House blows your rifle up?

So you could actually end up with a .46Disorder

If Majordisorder wishes to claim ownership I won't stop him, unless of course in the unlikely event I beat him to the proof house!

[Alpha1]

Interesting what sort of distance are you thinking of shooting it out to.

[majordisorder]

Have you been reading my mind? :shifty: I didn't want to mention this idea as it could be construed as a bad practice due to the reasons behind the design of the 460 Rowland.

The 460 Rowland was made longer so it could not be chambered in weaker 45 ACP - 45 Super pistols. It was based on the 451 Detonics round http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w451det.html. So as long as you don't have a firearm (unlikely in the UK) that is only suitable for those lower pressure rounds you should be OK. If you go down this route (as I might) I would only buy 460 Rowland brass and trim to size to avoid the risk of overloading weaker brass.

By shortening the 460 Rowland you are making a Wildcat. In effect you're making a 45 Super+P round. You couldn't have it proofed as 460 Rowland be cause the chamber would be too short. If you proof at the lower 45 Super level, you'd still be running a theoretical risk because you're firing higher pressure rounds. This could make resale iffy due to the potential for accidents to happen - especially due to the potential of confusion due to the available brass and the different pressures.

Potential problems for yourself could stem from the thickness/strength of the brass at the mouth of the case after trimming. It might be need ID reaming to enable seating the bullet. Due to the higher pressures of the 460 Rowland, you might find that at 45 ACP pressures there is poor sealing of the case in the chamber.

If you're really wanting to push the boat out you could look at the

45 Winchester Magnum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Winchester_Magnum
450 Bushmaster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.450_Bushmaster
458 SOCOM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_SOCOM

I'm sure there's a couple more I missed but you get the picture - my choice would be 458 SOCOM.

I think I've pretty much committed myself to the .45 ACP chamber as I've just bought a load of cases and magazines so I'm going to be shooting .45 ACP, .45 Super and the newly christened ".45 ZombieStopper".

I think the trimming down to ACP length should be fine as the bullet in the 460 is seated deeper to achieve the same OAL. My guess here is that the ID must be the same to accommodate this. I've just tried ordering 500 .460 Rowland cases from Starline but they're out of stock with no more being manufactured until there is sufficent demand, hope it's not too long.

If I do manage to pick up the 500 cases, what's the simplest most accurate tool to use to trim them down?

If anyone has some .460 Rowland brass (bit of a long shot I know) I'd pay handsomely for enough to get through the proof house.

[saddler]

NOT sure if its of use - or even WHAT I have really - but among a batch of dies I picked up is a LEE .45ACP seating die that has been heavily modified...

It now has a longer seating stem, due to the addition of a nut welded to the top of the die body

MAY be of interest/use with your 45 themed project