Accuracy or speed

[EagerNoSkill]

For F CLASS FTR

I am realising that accuracy is more important than speed
Took awhile I know I is male! :55:

SCALE
My current scale has 0.2 gn resolution NOT enough
Looks like I am getting one with 0.02 gn resolution
Gem pro 250 or Denver MX-123????

I had way too much elevation that was not me!

NEXT STEPS
Best drop abit and get the sweet spot back smile2
And get me loads more consistent :-P

[John MH]

Denver MXX-123 to check weigh the charges thrown on a decent beam scale and trickled up if you are after real consistency. I use a combination of a tuned RCBS 10-10, Targetmaster trickler and MXX-123. Knowing the actual weight in grains whilst important is not as important as repeatability, you can’t ‘see’ if an electronic scale is drifting but you can easily see inconsistency with a tuned and sensitive beam scale.

[dromia]

Denver MXX-123 to check weigh the charges thrown on a decent beam scale and trickled up if you are after real consistency. I use a combination of a tuned RCBS 10-10, Targetmaster trickler and MXX-123. Knowing the actual weight in grains whilst important is not as important as repeatability, you can’t ‘see’ if an electronic scale is drifting but you can easily see inconsistency with a tuned and sensitive beam scale.

Concur

Analogue good, digital bad!

[spud]

as already stated use the 123's as a check scale


ive loaded 400 odds rounds now using purely the digitals and after trying john's tuned scales ive tuned some 10-10's of my own and will start using them when i order target master trickler and check evry 5th throw with the digitals

its a win win then from what i can see

[rox]

Looks like I am getting one with 0.02 gn resolution
Gem pro 250 or Denver MX-123????

Bear in mind that the 123 is the cheapest milligram balance by far, and about the only one that uses the type of load cell usually seen in lower resolution balances. There's a reason why people spend 500 to 1000 on a milligram balance. An extra digit of readability does not inherently mean it is a better measuring instrument. My lab supplier doesn't even recommend the 123 as the entry level balance for schools.

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[ovenpaa]

How did you tune the 10-10's Spud?

This is an interesting subject, as much as I agree that consistently throwing accurate loads is very important I equally feel that it is very easy to get sucked into a 'I must weigh to +/- 1 kernel' mindset and I have to ask exactly what advantage does this offer? Yes it is a feel good factor and one thing less to worry about at the firing point but exactly how much of an advantage does this level off measuring accuracy give.

Consider a 50 grain load used to propel a projectile at 3000fps.

Thrown to .1grain accuracy, that is +/- .02%
Thrown to .01grain accuracy, that is +/- .002%

Factor in subtle variations in case volume, neck tension, bullet weight and form and then get to the FP and add in rising barrel and ambient temperature, wind and all the other factors and is it really worth it?

Put a different way how many people seen a marked improvement in 1000 yard accuracy when measuring to .01 of a grain versus .01 grains? Anyone at Barton Road this weekend and shooting a precise load? I can get the Viking to throw a few loads with the CM which is going to give .1 at very best and probably closer to .15 or even .2 grains and we can see how much of a difference there is.

I will also throw a few on my beam scale that measures to 0.015grains (1 Milligram) to see if can notice a difference.

[rox]

This is an interesting subject, as much as I agree that consistently throwing accurate loads is very important I equally feel that it is very easy to get sucked into a 'I must weigh to +/- 1 kernel' mindset

Wise words.

I can get the Viking to throw a few loads with the CM which is going to give .1 at very best and probably closer to .15 or even .2 grains and we can see how much of a difference there is.

I ran 40 loads from my CM over the lab balance last weekend, and the results were considerably better than this. *Every* charge was within 0.08 of setpoint, and 90% were within 0.06.

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[TattooedGun]

I need to get a decent set of beam scales.... not sure I need them quite this accurate though.

My digital scale last night whilst loading .223 was drifting out by up to a grain!!

I'm sure I'll have some interesting shooting ahead of me on Sunday due to this, but I had to make do with what I had :(

Whats all this about tuning the RCBS beams?

[EagerNoSkill]

Hi guys

When MIKMAK help me develop the load it was clear that 0.2 grains added 50fps in my rifle / head / powder / case combo
He had big Denvers - impressive 4 or 5 digital gn - that he had going to 3rd decimal only
We got 6fps ES with the Berrger 155.5 and 9 fps with the Lapua 155

My home setup
My current scale works in 0.2 increments that means that 45.11 is shown as 45.2 AND 45.29 is shown as 45.2
BUT I have an overall 0.18 difference charge to charge - I have seen the scale "react" differently to the same charge.

As I understand it the rule of thum is for every 25fps you can expect 1 MOA difference at 1000yards
so the +- 35 to 45 fps potential variance for me can explain the vertical spread I am getting

My current loading procedure
1. Prep cases (the complete set of prep procedures)
2. Weigh / sort case in 0.2gn increments (Same scale as powder)
3. Weigh / sort bullets in 0.2gn increments (Same scale as powder)
4. Measure bearing surface (thanks Ovenpaa)
5. Throw powder on Target Master (thanks Allan) + Redding No 2
6. Confirm on digital scale - but only 0.2 gn
7. Load on Arbor press + Wilson dies (thanks Spud)
8. Check runout on Sinclair RO gauge - my current runout is 0.000 to 0.0005
9. Write all details on case with Sharpie

I this have .18 gn variation potential in all elements but in the Bullets and Powder elements it could stack up and increase the variation at a 1000 yards by +- 0.5 to 1 MOA up or down for a total 1 to 2 MOA random variation!

Am I wrong?

[TattooedGun]

When MIKMAK help me develop the load it was clear that 0.2 grains added 50fps in my rifle / head / powder / case combo
He had big Denvers - impressive 4 or 5 digital gn - that he had going to 3rd decimal only
We got 6fps ES with the Berrger 155.5 and 9 fps with the Lapua 155

Quickload reckons that 1.8gr variation would be about 10 fps rather than as you quoted 50fps... I don't think that little powder difference would make such a huge difference. There was an article in Target Shooter about taking inches off a barrel and the gains were in about the same range as this powder charge. The article mentioned that the amount of difference was dwarfed by the ange of the butts at stickledown and you had more range of variation by which firing point you were on compared to the difference the 10 or so fps made, even at 1000 yards.