303 die set advice wanted

[MrD]

I'm pretty new to all this, so sorry if my question seems daft.

I've been looking at the Lee Pacesetter and Deluxe 3 die sets for the 303. Prices are only a few pounds apart.... Can anyone explain to me in simple terms what the major differenc is between these, and which (if any) would be the better buy?

Donald

[Alpha1]

OK
I am pitching this at some one who is new to reloading.

Pacesetter Dies
Lee do a three die set this includes:
A full length sizing die.
A bullit seating die
A crimp die
This set can be purchased for most standard calibers.

They also do a Pacesetter two die set they are usually for more obscure calibers they include:
A full length sizing die
A bullit seating die

They also do a Lee Deluxe die set they inlude:
A full length re sizing die.(This is a must have for any caliber you are reloading for)
A dead length seating die(A seating die is a must have for any caliber you are re loading for)
This set also includes a neck sizing die.

If you are going to reload for 303 or any rifle caliber you must have a sizing die you must have a seating die.
A crimp die is not stricktly necesarry.
If you get serious about your re loading at a later date you are going to want to experiment with neck sizing.
So my advice is to buy the Lee deluxe die set. If you decide you need to crimp your cases at a later date buy a crimp die they are not expensive.

[tikkathreebarrels]

And I have a set of carefully used Lee 303 dies which I shall be selling, pretty sure it's a Pacesetter three die set, plus the Lee case trimming guage. Let me know if you're interested and I'll dig them out. By the way I tried crimping one time but in all my reloading never persisted with it.

[MrD]

Thanks for the help. The problem is the description of the dies and what one does (if anything) better than the other.

'full length sizing die' v 'full length re-sizing die' and 'seating die' v 'dead length seating die'

I will have two 303s. The Lee catalogue suggests the deluxe might be better to avoid having to keep the fired brass seperate - again is this really the case or just some blurb to sell this set?

@ Tikka - I appreciate the offer, and once I can get clear in my head what set would be the better/more flexible solution I'll let you know.

[tikkathreebarrels]

I will have two 303s. The Lee catalogue suggests the deluxe might be better to avoid having to keep the fired brass seperate - again is this really the case or just some blurb to sell this set?

Will two examples of a military spec rifle built at different times and in different locations have been built to slightly different chamber specifications? I doubt it but they will have been manufactured to be within a set of tolerances.

Would a case chambered in one not fit in the other? I'd think it unlikely.

MrD, you ought to be aware that whereas most "bottle shaped" rifle cases chamber to the shoulder of the case, the jolly old .303 British case chambers to the case head and they can and do stretch visibly and the simple fact is that you need to examine used 303 brass with care and be prepared to discard those with too much stretch.

Coming back to the prospect of keeping each rifle's brass separate or avoiding this by full length sizing to restore the fired case to a standard set of dimensions, trial and error will tell you whether it's necessary. If you know the present owners, you could ask them for a sample of their used brass?

[Alpha1]

Ok
A full length sizing die is the same thing as a full length re sizing die.
This means that when you use this die it re sizes the whole of the fired case back to its original dimensions.
You can use a case thats been full length re sized in any of your 303 rifles.

A seating die is exactly that a die that you adjust to seat your bullit to the required depth in your resized case.
All standard die sets come with a full lentgh sizing die and a seater die.

The pacesetter three die set also comes with a crimp dimp this die is used to crimp the bullit in place after seating it in the case I dont use one of these dies.





The Delux die set comes with a standard full length re sizing die.
A dead length seater die this does the same job as a standard seating die only better Lees words not
mine.
It also includes a collet neck sizing die this die is used to size the neck of the case only.
If you neck size you have to keep the cases for each rifle seperate .
You need to start of re loading using a full length sizing die and a seater die until you become practiced in the art.

Once you have learnt a bit about the black art you will probably want to have a dabble at neck sizing.
So I would recomend you buy the Delux set.
All though if our freind is selling his set of dies for a good price you could buy them and may be purchase a neck die after you have become more practiced.
Some people never neck size it depends how confident you are with re loading and how far you want to go chasing that last bit of accuracy.

Hope this helps keep asking the questions no matter how stupid you think they are.

[ovenpaa]

I have two .303's each was started with new brass which is labelled so they are not mixed, the brass from the No4 Mk1 will not chamber in the P14 so there must be a reasonable difference between chambers. I mostly neck size and never crimp. The only brass we ever crimped in this house was 54R and we soon gave up on that.

I use Reddding dies because I picked them up cheap however I also found a set of Hornady a couple of years ago with some once fired cases for GBP15 the lot so you can find bargains (The spare dies went to the Neighbour) Have a look on that well known auction site as they do come up for reasonable money.

[MrD]

Thanks once again for the explanations and advice. I appreciate the honest and practical opinions.

Both rifles (No1 and No4) came from an estate sale so no used brass.
I had intended to start with new ammo and load from there on. So looks like best solution is going to be to keep fired cases seperate and reload them for their 'own' rifle until I have a clearer idea of the characteristics of each.
As Alpha1 suggested, I can see that am not going to get much benefit from buying the more expensive set at this stage so probably Tikka's second hand set would be more than adequate to get me going.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I'm new to reloading also but as I understand it neck-sized brass will last a lot longer than full-length sized brass. Reason being is that when fired in a .303, the cartridge expands to the chamber. The brass gets 'pulled up' along the length of the case in order to expand. Therefore, by full-length sizing, you are compressing already stretched brass, leading to it being weakened every time you resize. By only neck-sizing, the expanded brass stays where it is and only the neck is compressed, leading to a much longer shelf life.
Although the trade-off is that by only neck sizing it can be harder to close the bolt on the round..

I think that's all correct!

[ovenpaa]

That is about right