Expanding heads

[Phil25]

I know if you want to purchase any form of ammo it goes onto your FAC however I have come across this, when purchasing expanding heads for reloading they appear to require inserting onto your FAC and count towards your holding, no RFD can tell me where this law/requirement comes from only the local firearms authorities require it to be so. When I reloaded pistol ammo all "componant"parts (heads/cartridges/powder and primers) where not noted upon ones FAC, does anyone have the written whereabouts of this new/requirement is located as I cannot find it in the Fire Arms Act. Thanks

[Blackstuff]

Chapter 4 of the 2002 Firearms Guide for Police;

4.1 This Chapter sets out the definition of
expanding ammunition and lists the various
exemptions from the prohibition on its
possession.
Definition
4.2 Section 9 of the 1997 Act extended the
prohibition on expanding ammunition from
pistol ammunition only to cover all types
of expanding ammunition. Thus section
5(1A)(f) of the 1968 Act now prohibits any
ammunition which incorporates a missile
designed or adapted to expand on impact and
section 5(1A)(g) prohibits the bullets for such
ammunition (expanding missiles, in the words
of the Act).
4.3 The words designed or adapted are the
important ones here. Any bullet will deform
on impact with a sufficiently hard surface,
but only bullets, and ammunition containing
bullets, which were designed or have been
adapted to do so in a controlled manner are
actually affected by the legislation.
Exemptions
4.4 Section 10 of the 1997 Act amended
section 5A(4) of the 1968 Act to exempt
from the general prohibition on expanding
ammunition people who use it for specific
purposes. The exemptions cover those people
who use expanding ammunition for the:
1. lawful shooting of deer;
2. shooting of vermin or, in the course
of estate management, other wildlife;
3. humane killing of animals; and
4. shooting animals for the protection
of other animals or humans.
4.5 Persons who wish to acquire expanding
ammunition for any of these purposes must
first satisfy the chief officer of police that
they have a “good reason” to possess a
firearm for any of the above. Once this
“good reason” requirement has been satisfied,
the shooter’s firearm certificate or visitor’s
permit must be conditioned to include
expanding ammunition and, for home
loaders, the bullets for such ammunition.
The condition should restrict the use of the
bullets or ammunition to the precise purpose
for which it is intended (see paragraphs 3.31
and 4.7). These exemptions apply only to use
in Great Britain, not overseas.
4.6 Section 10(3) of the 1997 Act amended
section 5A(7) of the 1968 Act to exempt
dealers and their servants from the need for
the authority of the Secretary of State or
Scottish Ministers to possess, purchase,
acquire, sell or transfer any expanding
ammunition in the ordinary course of the
business. Dealers may not possess any
expanding ammunition for their private
use unless they have a suitably-conditioned
firearm certificate.
Other uses
4.7 Section 10(2)(b) of the 1997 Act amends
section 5A(4)(b) of the 1968 Act so that
the use of expanding ammunition is in
connection with the various exempted
purposes. This allows, for example, a deer
stalker or vermin shooter to zero with their
rifle on a range or other suitable land and to
do sufficient training and testing with the
expanding ammunition. It does not allow
them to take part in target shooting or any
competitions, such as running deer using
expanding ammunition. For this reason, the
quantity of expanding ammunition or bullets
for such ammunition which any shooter is
allowed to possess at any one time should
be carefully controlled by the certificate

This seems to indicate the legislation is the 1997 Firarms Act (no.2). The guidance doesn't seem to expressly say that expanding bullets (as opposed to complete rounds of ammunition) count towards your total allowance. However the fact bullets are separately mentioned in relation to home loading would indicate this is the case. Whether or not the Police are using this supposition or whether its actually there in the act i don't know

[Doz]

I tried to find this in the act and failed. However from what I have just read (and neglected to note the reference, sorry!) I am almost certain the act states that the expanding bullets DO count towards your total allowance. The matter of whether or not they should be entered onto the FAC looks like 'interpretation' of the guidelines by individual police forces. Just as confusing as the rest of our firearms legislation...

[ovenpaa]

It is my understanding that expanding ammunition counts to your allowance in loaded and unloaded states, so if you are allowed to hold 100 that is all you can physically hold both assembled and waiting to be assembled.

[Robin128]

There is nothing in law that states expanding bullets must be entered onto your FAC whether free standing or reloaded into cartridges.

They do count towards your max holding even in their unloaded state.

[Sandgroper]

From BASC

If your rifle(s) are held for pest shooting or deer control don’t forget that
cartridges loaded with expanding bullets and even the bullets themselves are
prohibited unless there is a condition on your Firearm Certificate allowing you to
acquire and possess expanding ammunition. Make sure you ask for the correct
condition if you want to use soft or hollow point bullets. Since the bullets count
towards your total holding, ensure that you have asked for sufficient –
particularly as bullets for re-loading are normally sold in 100’s.

On my FAC, authorisation for expanding bullets (30 cal) are listed separately to my overall authorisation for 30 cal ammunition.

[Phil25]

Thanks all for your replies. Will it looks like they are and they do. Another restriction imposed upon FAC holders. Again many thanks for all your help.
Phil25

[kennyc]

my expanding bullets were not entered into my FAC although the shop did need sight of the fAC to confirm that I had the relevant condition, I personally count them against my holding although my FEO seems not too worried as long as they are not assembled rounds, I also keep them under lock and key unlike FMJ just to be on the safe side

[Scotsgun]

Whilst you require specific authority for expanding ammunition (bullets or rounds) to be entered onto you're FAC, there is no legal requirements for the dealer to enter the purchase off onto your FAC. He must check for the authority only and cannot sell you more than that allowable limit stated. It is you're responsibility to ensure that you do not exceed the limit.
Also, expanding ammo must be sent from dealer, to another dealer if posted. You cannot receive them at home.

[tikkathreebarrels]

Thanks all for your replies. Will it looks like they are and they do. Another restriction imposed upon FAC holders. Again many thanks for all your help.
Phil25

Okay, fair enough, but what's the issue really? If the law says you must have authority to purchase and possess then surely that's the end of the matter?