Brit Riots Show Need For Right To Keep And Bear Arms

[Christel]

http://www.ammoland.com/2011/08/09/brit ... bear-arms/

"Widespread rioting, arson and looting across London clearly demonstrates the need in any civilized society for the right to personal protection and the tools to make it possible, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms said today."

What do you think?

[Sim G]

Fully support it. You have to remember it's not that we have to be given this right, it already exists. It just has to be recognised again by the judiciary.....

I once heard a very well put argument that to carry your gun in the street in the UK is fundementally just a breach of your firearm certificate conditions....

[Sandgroper]

I think Porcupine sumed it up nicely in a previous thread-

Legal barriers to gun ownership, not to mention our more predominantly urban population, mean that few Britons are familiar with guns, and fewer still own them. Those that do are forced to justify their ownership on the ground of sporting use; self-defence is taboo as a matter of policy (the Home Office have refused to accept 'self protection' as good reason for a FAC since 1945, except, it is rumoured, in a handful of cases for Northern Irish politicians etc). Lack of familiarity breeds suspicion and contempt, especially with something so negatively portrayed by government and the media. Many do think it is acceptable to own guns for hunting or target shooting, but believe the anti-gun fallacies that firearms need to be locked away or that guns for self-defence are dangerous (well they are meant to be! :cool2: ) or even that self-defence itself is illegitimate or stupid ("Just give them what they want!"). Doubtless the low level of murder in this country adds to the situation - despite high levels of violent crime and burglary, concern with one's personal safety is seen as an unhealthy obsession or fanatical fixation. Most people just do not think or care about their security and happily walk home alone at night through violent streets with nothing but their boing and wallet to hand.

I haven't heard any of the groups formed to protect local property calling for the right to have firearms for self defence. Rightly or wrongly, I don't think the average British thinks "guns" when it comes to these sorts of situations.

A more interesting question is what would happen to an FAC/SGC holder who attempted to defend their home against a group of rioters/looters with their firearms?

[Porcupine]

All for it. Nothing solves a 'public order situation' like an ounce of buckshot to the face. Most people will not be in favour, however.

Los Angeles Riots, 1992:





While the LAPD stood and watched Los Angeles burn; Korean store owners (targeted by the rioting black community*) stood up to the looters.

*Not that it was only blacks: Koreans, Latinos and whites rioted and looted too; but Korean businesses were targeted more than others by blacks because of the tension between the two groups.

[Tower75]

That seems to be the crux of it.

This is a quote from three people replying to one of my Facebook statuses. This shows the attitude of the British mind set:

Tower.75: ...and this is what happens in a disarmed populous. Food for thought.
Friend A: It'd be much worse if we all had access to firearms.
Friend B: hmm would be a lot more then burnt out cars and house rubble on the floor if they were armed.
Friend C: chavs with guns... God forbid!!
Tower.75: Worse for the rioting scum. Lets get real. The scum bags of society ALREADY have guns. Illegal guns. Thousands of them. There have already been shootings. This is what you need to get. The guns are already in the hands of the criminals. The 1997 handgun ban just increased illegal handgun crime and pushed a load of the things underground. If every home owner and shop owner was packing a 12 bore then every single one of them rioters would be thinking twice. FFS the [rude word] were kicking in the doors of private homes! I don't want the police explaining to the husband that his home was invaded and his wife raped and murdered. I want the wife explaining to the police why the burglar on the floor in full of lead!
Can't really fight that attitude.

[Dangermouse]

Report in news paper this morning said that sales of aluminium baseball bats on Amazon had gone through the roof, even though expected delivery times may be weeks,

DM

[Sandgroper]

I think this says it all!

England riots: Are brooms the symbol of the resistance?

In the wake of the riots in English cities, law-abiding citizens have been picking up brooms and brushes and joining the clean-up. Is the broom the symbol of the resistance to the riots?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14475741

[Scotsgun]

I'm refraiming to comment on this one on the grounds that there are idiotic, belleding heart liberals snooping everywhere and i wish to keep my firearms cert.
I do however require further guidance on how mad these animals are as i have 'Humane Dispatch' on my cert.

[Holds Tight]

The right to bear arms is a key principle enshrined in Britain’s Constitution. The Declaration of Rights 1688 and Bill of Rights 1689, both part of the British constitution, state “That the Subjects which are Protestants may have Arms for their Defence suitable to their Conditions and as allowed by Law”. The word “Protestants” was not used in order to disarm Roman Catholics, but was written by the Stuart kings passing laws attempted to disarm their Protestant enemies.

[artiglio]

Good morning people,

This is anquestion that goes to the heart of being British and challenges the way we both view ourselves and the way we are viewed by the world.
Up until now the ability to maintain law and order ,with a predominately unarmed police force/service trained to use minimum force in a situation, has been a matter of national pride and international respect.
Unfortunately sections of society have moved away from these ideals and over the last 1/2 generations this sense of Britishness has been irrevocably lost. It is interesting to see the attitude of many immigrants both recent and well settled who seemingly value British ideals more than our own mollycoddled natives.
Despite the huge levels of violence, though I stand to be corrected, the use of firearms by the mob extends to a single incident in addition to the original shooting in Tottenham. To my mind, if there are as we suspect a huge number of illegally held firearms in the country, the mob has subconsciously chosen not to use them on a wider scale, probably knowing that to do so would result in the police using deadly force to stop them. A fine example of a line drawn in the sand that people will not cross. A pity that the line is not a lot further forward resulting in people being scared of the consequences of lesser actions.
The UK does not have a history of mindset for the use of firearms for personal/home defence and the country to my mind would be much the worse for it, don't get me wrong any rioter/looter/criminal entering private property who does not leave peacefully when asked to do so by the occupier/owner should have no redress in law for injuries received removing him from the premises and equally the owner occupier should have no fear of prosecution for doing so. However the wide scale use of firearms is a big jump , to my mind , in the wrong direction. Though it may well serve the country well if there were a few occasions each year in which embers of the criminal element were gunned down in such circumstances by members of the public using legally held firearms who were held blameless.
I would suspect that there are very few among us that could take the life of another without it profoundly affecting them rest of their days in anything but the most extreme circumstances.
Having been burgled twice many years ago the advice from my local copper was to buy a very heavy saucepan/frying pan as apparently they make excellent defensive and offensive weapons, a good blow with one will incapacitate but rarely cause long term damage, and should a householder find themselves in court for attacking a burglar with one, the use of a frying pan does not show deadly intent and a jury would be unlikely to do much other than see the funny side.
The unbelievable events of the last week have finally focused attention on the way of life and the attitude of a relatively small but very dangerous section of society, this has been bought about by excessive liberalism within education and criminal justice system and at long last puts to the sword the idea that people are naturally good. For too long this country has tried to buy peace with the disaffected/lazy/disrespectful with over generous benefits and a blind eye to low level crime, resulting in a sense of entitlement and feeling of invulnerability within our underclass.
It's taken over 50 years to totally cock things up and will take a lot longer to put them right even if there is the political will to do so.
At the same time I received the advice about the saucepan, I asked the same copper how many local crime would he like to put away for 5 years to make a difference to the area, the instant answer was for his beat 15, this would he said reduce crime by 50% instantly and remove the influence these people had over others probably reducing crime another 25%, this would free up over half of his time to then be able to police on an old fashioned basis and restore the respect of the general public toward the police service.
I worked out that based. On his beat size with the existing prison population we needed a total of around 250,000 prison places with the associated education and training facilities a hugely expensive undertaking but one which I think in the present circumstances would be widely supported and finally make our underclass realise enough is enough.
This should be coupled with a social contract in which everyone will be supported but in return you live like a responsible citizen, the problem of drugs need addressing both at the level of supply and consumption , a lot of blue sky thinking would be required and the result would be unpalatable to many, if you want to get rid of the crime associated with drugs in the whole chain, then the government needs to be the sole supplier and be prepared to supply the products for free to addicts and through chemists for recreational use. The amount of crime associated with the supply of drugs and the purchase at street level is horrendous , levels of addiction are such that the problem is going to be around for many generations to come if not forever, and the current approach is a patent failure based upon perception of the problem.
Apologies for going so far off topic, but not bad for a early morning rant, me thinks.

Have a good day everyone, phil