Rimless .303 - a No4 in 7.7 Arisaka

[Fedaykin]

Whilst looking at Ovenpaa's project for a .276 P13 replica, the recent C&R arsenal Youtube video about the Long Lee and getting the chance to look at a No.4 trials rifle (a club member owns one) a speculative idea formed in my head.

Right from the beginning the .303 round didn't need to be rimmed, a rimless version of the round was almost adopted for the Long Lee and later on further trials of rimless variants of the round were conducted. That set me thinking when the trials No.4 were made in the 1920's and 1930's wouldn't it have been cool of they decided to test a compromise interim solution of a rimless .303 round (maybe they did).

Now the Japanese did develop their own rimless .303 round the 7.7x58 Arisaka, that can be reloaded and even purchased off the shelf. To that end what would the practicalities of taking a No.4 and turning it into a trials rifle replica with the earlier SMLE style cocking piece and subtle wood work differences like the SMLE style butt but chambered in 7.7x58 Arisaka. There are still plenty of No.4 out there including shot out rough ones that could for a platform for the project.

What are peoples and gun fettler's thoughts?

[Sixshot6]

Whilst looking at Ovenpaa's project for a .276 P13 replica, the recent C&R arsenal Youtube video about the Long Lee and getting the chance to look at a No.4 trials rifle (a club member owns one) a speculative idea formed in my head.

Right from the beginning the .303 round didn't need to be rimmed, a rimless version of the round was almost adopted for the Long Lee and later on further trials of rimless variants of the round were conducted. That set me thinking when the trials No.4 were made in the 1920's and 1930's wouldn't it have been cool of they decided to test a compromise interim solution of a rimless .303 round (maybe they did).

Now the Japanese did develop their own rimless .303 round the 7.7x58 Arisaka, that can be reloaded and even purchased off the shelf. To that end what would the practicalities of taking a No.4 and turning it into a trials rifle replica with the earlier SMLE style cocking piece and subtle wood work differences like the SMLE style butt but chambered in 7.7x58 Arisaka. There are still plenty of No.4 out there including shot out rough ones that could for a platform for the project.

What are peoples and gun fettler's thoughts?

Wasn't there a link to a US FFL that had a trials for $1500, I know it's pricey but wouldn't it be easier to acquire that and see about rechambering it into 7.7x58 Arisaka. Also what are the ballistics of the round vs 303? I only suggest that as the magazine cut off sounds like the hardest part to pull off.

[Fedaykin]

It would be criminal to re-chamber a real trials rifle imho, it would be madness to even consider it but considering there is hardly a shortage of No.4 in various marks and plenty that are rough so no historical loss I would think they would make a good platform for a project.

My gut feeling the most difficult part would be replicating the sights used on the trials rifle.

I think the Arisaka round is slightly longer but aside from that they are very similar, the performance is similar as well and you can even use .303 loading data.

[ovenpaa]

Slightly OT however am I right to think the WD procured Arisaka rifles to supply warring factions in the Middle East, the idea being the supply of ammunition could be cut of at any point.

Regarding the project - get it done! :)

[Fedaykin]

Don't have your lathe skills Ovenpaa, it will have to be a commissioned project someday!

[Sandgroper]

Slightly OT however am I right to think the WD procured Arisaka rifles to supply warring factions in the Middle East, the idea being the supply of ammunition could be cut of at any point.

That would the Type 30 and 38 rifles in 6.5x50 that were surplus after the RN had finished with them.

[Sandgroper]

The rim of a 7.7x58 Arisaka is the same as a 308 Win so why not use a LE in 308 as the donor rifle...?

[Fedaykin]

Then take the chamber out to match the 7.7x58 Arisaka and fit a suitable barrel. Interesting. A fair few cheap No.4 to 7.62 conversions out there!

[channel12]

Slightly OT however am I right to think the WD procured Arisaka rifles to supply warring factions in the Middle East, the idea being the supply of ammunition could be cut of at any point.

Regarding the project - get it done! :)

They were purchased early in the First World War as training rifles for UK troops because of a shortage of Enfield rifles. Britain was faced with a rapidly expanding army of raw recruits and not having sufficient SMLE's for them as production output was not fully up to speed.

[ovenpaa]

What about TE Lawrence when he was out in the Middle East, I had a feeling the tribes were supplied with a rifle that was non standard to the British Army.