.303 load holding to drop for Lee ladder sight

[Countryman]

Privi .303 loads drop off way too fast to hold true to the ladder sight on my Lee Enfield No.4

Last long range trip I used some really old surplus ammo which was spot on my elevation setting out to 600 yards at least.

Santa bought me a chrono but I haven't had time to play yet. Anybody got any load data that will repeat the MV of the surplus stuff?

Santa didn't bring me a funnel to boil out my barrel. Grrr. I have certainly bought one now.


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[Maggot]

If I were you I would develop a load that shoots best with readily available components then keep data for the elevations.

One of the problems with shooting at the various targets (Fig, Tin Hat, NRA) and the various POA (Centre of mass, 6 oclock, sub 6) is that you will need to work out a combination for each target.

You may find that a sub 6 hold on the base of the white board at 600 will be a damned sight more manageable in a wind.

I doubt you will get a steady supply of surplus ammo and, even if loaded to a Mk7/8 spec, you cannot guarantee its state, this is partly why Mill surp becomes available.

I am using 39gr N140 behind a PPU bullet (they were available) crimped. If I do my job, this seems to work but as you say, the elevations are off.

Also, these rifles are clocking on a bit, protect them where you can. I guess if that means popping a bit more elevation on and saving the barrel, its a no brainer.

That's just my opinion of course...

[mag41uk]

Privvi is a bit under powered.
Best to reload with PPU or SMK with say-40gn N140-usual caveats etc.
Get on a 200 yard range with your spare foresight elements and adjusting tool and zero.
You should be fairly close at other distances out to 900.

[Countryman]

Cheers both.

Yes I have a heap of the 174gr bullets of both types and N140 so that should work well. If about 40gr will hold the trajectory then I'm good.

Obviously I could chrono my remaining surps and then build rounds till I hit that magic number. Not keen on putting that corrosive stuff in her again. :-(


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[Countryman]

The previous loads I had done with 39gr Vht N140 certainly were not there.


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[Maggot]

The previous loads I had done with 39gr Vht N140 certainly were not there.


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They wont be.

My point was that 39gr is quite "rifle friendly" and in my rifle pretty accurate. I tried matching the 2440 FPS standard a while back and concluded after taking advice from some of the LERA guys and a few others that I was wasting my time and possibly looking to shorten the life of what was essentially an old rifle.

It was also trashing my brass quickly as well. Dont forget that unless PPU et al have chanced the .303 Brit case spec, the originals were designed for BP and the cases are quite thin. They were also only ever designed to be fired once. Heads-pacing and chambering can be generous and some rifles can eat brass at an amazing rate (I used to FL resize and was also chasing the mill spec load, in the end I may just as well have cut out the middle man and scrap the brass, it was barely lasting 2 firings without separating, this stopped when I neck sized only and the case life now is fine at 8+)

Since the most I shoot it at is 600, and generally only out to 300 for Historic CSR type shoots, I dont worry too much but as I say, you will end up adjusting for conditions anyway so why not develop a load that gives the best performance for what you need then note the data?

I am not saying dont try to replicate the mill loads, but what I am suggesting is it might not be the best or most rifle friendly route.

Nobody is going to be giving you fire control orders after all

[pe4king]

I don't think attaining and matching the required velocity is the problem, from what I understand it is more to do with replicating the original spec flat based bullet, there were some available somewhere at some stage but not sure when or where.
All I ever do I use what I can get and live with it 174gr PPU or similar with 41 gr N140, it will never match the ladder sight.
Just note the adjustments at various ranges

[WelshShooter]

The issue you'll have is Point of Aim (POA) versus Point of Impact (POI). As others have highlighted, you may want to get V-Bull's but you don't want to be aiming at V-Bulls because the front sight can be lost on the black target. Having a 6 o'clock hold on the white part of the target makes it much easier to get tighter groupings. The easiest way to get this is to insert the correct high fore sight. If you do a bit of shopping you can get the full range of front sight posts for £15. If your windage is spot on don't forget to make witness marks so that when you put the new front post in you can align it straight away with little faff.

I'd shy away from surplus mainly because it's not easily found (in my experience anyway) compared to something like 7.62x39 or 7.62x54mmR. I find the 180gr Sellior and Bellot FMJ bullet to be very nice to shoot with and I find them better quality than PPU 174gr FMJ bullets which I can get for the same price. There is a company out there somewhere that make the 175(?)gr flat based bullet but if I recall correctly their bullets were quite expensive so I shan't be venturing down that alleyway.

The Sierra Match King's could be worth looking at. I have some for .303 which I've not used but have used them in my 8mm Mauser (.323 of course...). Initially I was getting ~3moa with PPU 8mm Mauser handloads but when I swapped to SMK I couldn't believe I was getting ten shot groups at ~1.5moa so they do make a lot of difference. However, SMK can be quite pricey so it depends on whether you want competition results or just want to have fun plinking.

[Alpha1]

41grains of N140. 174 grain flat base bullet works for me.

[Maggot]

The issue you'll have is Point of Aim (POA) versus Point of Impact (POI). As others have highlighted, you may want to get V-Bull's but you don't want to be aiming at V-Bulls because the front sight can be lost on the black target. Having a 6 o'clock hold on the white part of the target makes it much easier to get tighter groupings. The easiest way to get this is to insert the correct high fore sight. If you do a bit of shopping you can get the full range of front sight posts for £15. If your windage is spot on don't forget to make witness marks so that when you put the new front post in you can align it straight away with little faff.

I'd shy away from surplus mainly because it's not easily found (in my experience anyway) compared to something like 7.62x39 or 7.62x54mmR. I find the 180gr Sellior and Bellot FMJ bullet to be very nice to shoot with and I find them better quality than PPU 174gr FMJ bullets which I can get for the same price. There is a company out there somewhere that make the 175(?)gr flat based bullet but if I recall correctly their bullets were quite expensive so I shan't be venturing down that alleyway.

The Sierra Match King's could be worth looking at. I have some for .303 which I've not used but have used them in my 8mm Mauser (.323 of course...). Initially I was getting ~3moa with PPU 8mm Mauser handloads but when I swapped to SMK I couldn't believe I was getting ten shot groups at ~1.5moa so they do make a lot of difference. However, SMK can be quite pricey so it depends on whether you want competition results or just want to have fun plinking.

The S&B bullets did work well but dried up so I ended up using the PPU versions. They work, but not as well as the S&Bs.

The problem I found with the SMKs was that it was a case of diminishing returns. It was not a match rifle and the S&Bs worked well, and the No4 takes keeping on top of and practising with, so the cheaper bullets meant I could practice (I was shooting CSR with it at the time) regularly.