Re-sizing Brass... do I need to lube inside the neck?

[bigfathairybiker]

Just been reading Badgers thread on his set setup and a question popped into my noggin.

I currently lube with sheep sweat ( lanolin ) just by rubbing my fingers in the stuff then on the cases.
I have also been using a cotton bud to apply a small amount to the inside of the case neck.

So...

Do I need to lube the inside of the case neck?

Mark

[WelshShooter]

For full length sizing, yes. For neck sizing, no.

[Geordie bloke]

No you don't. I full length resize my .284 brass and use the Redding type S bushing to give me the neck tension I need. All I do is put imperial sizing wax on the outside of the brass and then resize. If you put any lube in the inside of the case neck you are serving no purpose as all the die does is resize from the outside.
The only time I lube the inside of the case mouth is when I use graphite to ensure smooth seating of my bullet.
Just my two pennorth.

[Alpha1]

No you don't. I full length resize my .284 brass and use the Redding type S bushing to give me the neck tension I need. All I do is put imperial sizing wax on the outside of the brass and then resize. If you put any lube in the inside of the case neck you are serving no purpose as all the die does is resize from the outside.
The only time I lube the inside of the case mouth is when I use graphite to ensure smooth seating of my bullet.
Just my two pennorth.

If you are using a bushing die to give you neck tension why are you full length sizing. You have cases perfectly fire formed to fit your chamber then you mess them up full length sizing. Why. I'm not sure I would use graphite to seat a bullet either I'm interested to know why you would do that.


There is no need to lube the inside of the case if you full length resize. When full length re sizing I dip my finger in sizing wax and rub it on the outside of the case just before I run it through the sizing die. Most of my reloading is done with bushing dies I don't use any lube at all when neck sizing with bushing dies.

[Geordie bloke]

No you don't. I full length resize my .284 brass and use the Redding type S bushing to give me the neck tension I need. All I do is put imperial sizing wax on the outside of the brass and then resize. If you put any lube in the inside of the case neck you are serving no purpose as all the die does is resize from the outside.
The only time I lube the inside of the case mouth is when I use graphite to ensure smooth seating of my bullet.
Just my two pennorth.

If you are using a bushing die to give you neck tension why are you full length sizing. You have cases perfectly fire formed to fit your chamber then you mess them up full length sizing. Why. I'm not sure I would use graphite to seat a bullet either I'm interested to know why you would do that.


There is no need to lube the inside of the case if you full length resize. When full length re sizing I dip my finger in sizing wax and rub it on the outside of the case just before I run it through the sizing die. Most of my reloading is done with bushing dies I don't use any lube at all when neck sizing with bushing dies.

Alpha1.
I chose the Redding Type S full length/bushing die because it serves two purposes in one. It full length resizes my cases to just fit the chamber and to push the shoulder back a thou or two for ease of chambering once set up correctly.

The bushing I chose for the die gives me 3 thou bullet retention which is my choice.
So it doesn't mess up anything from my perspective it makes the chambering easier as neck sizing is not for me.

As for the reason I use a dry (graphite type) of inside neck lubrication is simple. I learned many years ago that if your inside neck is too clean then the copper bullet can react with the brass of the neck and possibly weld if the round is left for a long period of time. By dry lubing the neck it ensures that the bullet seats easier and also I believe gives better runout.

As for the OPs post, we do agree that there is no requirement at all to lubricate the inside of the case mouth prior to full length resizing.

[Triffid]

I beg to differ on the general opinion here that you don't need to lube the inside of case neck. . .

While I agree that you don't for neck sizing, if I'm full length re-sizing using Lee dies, then I do need to lube the inside of the case mouth.

The reason is that Lee full-length rifle dies use an expander ball on the de-capping pin to force the case neck back to a set diameter on the down-stroke of the ram, after the outside of the neck is re-sized in the die on the up-stroke. If I don't lube the inside of the case-neck when using this kind of die, then the operation is very graunchy.

Here's the Lee rifle de-capping pin with the swelling of the expander ball on its stem. I don't know what other dies use this kind of system, but it re-sizes the case neck to a fixed diameter regardless of the thickness of the brass.

http://leeprecision.com/ez-x-exp-30-cal-med.html

Triffid

[WelshShooter]

I was just about to reply with the same comment as Triffid. You can definitely feel the difference using lube on inside case necks when full length sizing using conventional full length sizing dies as offered by Lee and RCBS because they have an expander ball. There are dies offered by manufacturers that size only the body, as an example Redding offer a body sizing die that does not size the neck, therefore you wouldn't need to lubricate the neck for this.The Redding bushing sizing die resizes the neck but uses a bushing to do so and there is no expander ball present. When using these latter two dies one only needs to lubricate the case body and perhaps the outside case neck unless you use a TiN bushing, in which case I lube the first case neck to "season" the bushing and don't bother with the remaining cases.

[rox]

Do I need to lube the inside of the case neck?

Presumably you're using an expander ball or mandrel, otherwise the question is moot.

If your die and expander are well matched to the neck wall thickness, and you use a carbide/cryo-coated/polished expander then it's certainly possible to FL size without lubing the neck ID, especially if your cleaning process leaves carbon in the necks. Ultimately, the press will tell you if you need to lube or not, so try it with lube and without and see how it feels; if possible measure the neck runout to see if there's a difference.

Like you I mainly use lanolin lube, but sprayed on. Little, if any, enters the necks (which are usually squeaky clean). I size with a fixed one-piece FL die that's matched to the neck wall thickness so that the next step - a floating carbide expander mandrel - expands the neck by around 0.002" to 0.003" (before springback) to achieve the desired neck-tension/interference and a very uniform ID. This process serves me extremely well, providing the accuracy benefits of FL over neck sizing, the runout benefits of fixed dies over bushing, and the kind of ID uniformity that you can usually only achieve with neck turning, but without that hassle.

..

[Geordie bloke]

Oooops! I have forgotten about the dies that use a neck expander ball (soooooo last year ) so I retract my statement that you do not need lube if that is the type of resizing die the original poster uses.

[Maggot]

Er...yea

You wont need to lube inside unless you simply size without a ball, or use a collet die as the brass is squeezed against a form and springs back a tad with hopefully no dragging or galling.

If you use any sort of re sizing ball (or what I do sometimes is size without a ball then use a sinclair neck mandrel later) you will need some lube. You will feel the difference when the ball withdraws if it is lubed.

Thats an interesting comment about the dry lube and cold weld, I have heard about stored ammo going a bit odd but I cant really comment.

Personally I go round the inside of the neck and the shoulder start with a cuetip and some lymans case lube if I am full sizing, the same stuff I use on the pad. Messy, time consuming, but the rifle shoots well and the brass loads well and keeps going.

Otherwise its a quick wipe in and out of the neck with imperial.

Then they get a sloosh in clutch cleaner and left to dry.