Guns and Holsters

[bradaz11]

I've just bought an Alan Westlake Alfa Proj pistol.

When I picked it up, he offered me a holster with it, which I thought a good idea at the time. One thing he advised was when using it at a range, if going foward to change targets etc, to clear it and then holster it, and do what was needed, to maintain security of the pistol. as he had been informed more than one had been stolen from a range when the owner was forward.

now, for BWSS type matches, I know that they are happy if the hammer is dropped on an empty/unloaded chamber, you can have it holstered, and you are trusted not to draw it until you are the firing point, ready to shoot. I know my local range is not happy with this practice, and a colleagues club would also not be happy with this.

So what i'm asking is, even if the gun was totally unloaded, are any clubs going to be happy with it in a holster?

likewise, i was considering getting a holster for my mares leg, but i don't know where it would actually be able to be holstered.

[Ginger]

Hi Bradz,

we had a similar thing at one of my clubs where a member was holstering his GSG 1911 and test drawing it at the firing point and wanting to generally wear it to get used to it as he does 3 gun comps, he was informed that he had to be UKPSA(?) Holster cleared, and apparently this is / was a national qualification, and the range wasn't a "hot" range.

Before people start to stone me, I am only passing this on, I cannot remember the full story.

Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with anyone doing this unless I know they are competent and qualified

[mullen7]

Not having a dig at you in anyway Ginger, but if you are shooting a pistol, or muzzle loader and are holstering it.. how qualified can you be to clear your own firearm, and put it in a holster. We all clear our own firearms at the end of a detail anyway, with the RCO double checking it.

Sounds a bit daft to me, it's like teaching us to suck eggs. But I can see where you're coming from, theres a few people at my club who I certainly wouldn't ever considering being anywhere near them if they were to do it. (they asked it a .357 LBR takes .22LR) but for people who are long time shooters, and use pistols in comps etc I cannot see where there would ever be any issues with holstering a cleared weapon.

[TattooedGun]

Not having a dig at you in anyway Ginger, but if you are shooting a pistol, or muzzle loader and are holstering it.. how qualified can you be to clear your own firearm, and put it in a holster. We all clear our own firearms at the end of a detail anyway, with the RCO double checking it.

Sounds a bit daft to me, it's like teaching us to suck eggs. But I can see where you're coming from, theres a few people at my club who I certainly wouldn't ever considering being anywhere near them if they were to do it. (they asked it a .357 LBR takes .22LR) but for people who are long time shooters, and use pistols in comps etc I cannot see where there would ever be any issues with holstering a cleared weapon.

Whilst there are people at my club I definitely wouldn't want to see with a holstered weapon, I can't help but feel that even long time shooters can get it wrong.

Some of the old time guys tell stories from the halcyon days of pistol shooting in the UK where a long time shooter had "cleared" his weapon and on being asked to prove it whilst coming off the range found a round in the chamber. He quit shooting after doing that. But my point is that complacency is often just as dangerous as ignorance or inexperience.

With regards to someone test drawing on a cold range, if I caught someone doing that they'd be out. Rule number 1. Treat all firearms as if they are loaded.

To be test drawing on a range that has not been designated as hot other than to safely lay the rifle on a bench of some kind or "unbag" the weapon is very poor form.

[Rockhopper]

We had at least two American soldiers shoot themselves in the leg whilst holstering a pistol they thought they had unloaded! We also had an ND with a .50cal (that was nasty) plus numerous ND's into the zero yard range.

[mullen7]

Fair point TG, I never thought of complacency. On that, I would agree but at the same time, the rules of clearing before holstering could and would be applied. So again, upon proving clear to the RCO, and knowing the pistol is clear, I see no reason why there would be a reason not to have it holstered.

[IsleShoot]

Your range SOPs (standard operating proceedures) should always be adhered to and, if not obvious/communicated, then the range officer who is in charge of the range at the time should be consulted.

The wearing of pistols in holsters has become an alien sight on most UK ranges since 1997 and as such (and understandably) people are confused about wheather it is safe to do so, or even allowed etc...

My first point is that the UKPSA, whilst the UK governing body for practical shooting, do not have any authority regarding who can and can't wear/use a holster when shooting regardless of what discipline, range or location (the caveat being if its a UKPSA match/event or an IPSC match/event then they do control who takes part). What the UKPSA can do is provide excellent advice and training for an individual shooter with regards the practical dicipines including the use of holsters, if you can get on a course I'd thoughly recommend it.

Some good advice on the use of holsters can be found in the IPSC rule book section 8 and this is generally considered the best guide to using a holster in terms of loading a pistol before holstering, holstering, the draw and then the unload and reholster.

https://www.ipsc.org/pdf/RulesHandgun.pdf

If the proper format is followed I seen no issue with someone walking around the firing point or approaching the targets with an unloaded firearm that has been cleared by a range officer. I would strong disagree with anybody moving around with a loaded and holstered firearm unless they are under the direct control of a range officer and it was a necessary part of the CoF i.e. between strings and advancing i.e. service pistol, but even then this is unlikely as you'd clear your firearm between strings and then re-load/holster immediately before the next string/position/distance.

As LBPs & LBRs become more popular and practical pistol format becomes more common again with comps like the NRA handgun league etc... the biggest issue is the suitability of the holster to the gun. As always us UK shooters get the mucky end of the stick and unless you're shooting the 1911 clones finding a suitable holster that won't foul the barrel on a draw is challenging. The modern front brake type such as Double Alpha's Range Master is popular but there is usually a dremel involved to get a good fit! Its even harder if you've got an Alpha Prodj or Taurus as very few practical shooters use those guns so there is a lack of suitable holsters for them. Guga Ribas does an excellent multi fit holster that will fit most guns but as with everything we do over here there is likely to be some fettling required.

Essentially when using a holster ensure the gun is secure and a good fit and that you are supervised by a range officer when clearing the gun before re-holstering before leaving the firing point once you've finished shooting.

[the running man]

I've just bought an Alan Westlake Alfa Proj pistol.

When I picked it up, he offered me a holster with it, which I thought a good idea at the time. One thing he advised was when using it at a range, if going foward to change targets etc, to clear it and then holster it, and do what was needed, to maintain security of the pistol. as he had been informed more than one had been stolen from a range when the owner was forward.



now, for BWSS type matches, I know that they are happy if the hammer is dropped on an empty/unloaded chamber, you can have it holstered, and you are trusted not to draw it until you are the firing point, ready to shoot. I know my local range is not happy with this practice, and a colleagues club would also not be happy with this.

So what i'm asking is, even if the gun was totally unloaded, are any clubs going to be happy with it in a holster?

likewise, i was considering getting a holster for my mares leg, but i don't know where it would actually be able to be holstered.

Bradley, try Neil he does an alpha quick draw jobbyhttp://www.neiljonesshooting.co.uk/

U went to Alan place? It's a bit high plains drifter there ain't it!

[FredB]

Properly used, a holster is a safety device: in fact, British Military training instructions on pistols refer to the holster as a case. The rules should be simple: the pistol should be cleared and holstered. The pistol is NEVER drawn from the holster except under the command of a range officer or in an approved designated fumble zone.
This is no different from Gallery Rifle procedure where the rifle is cased until on the firing point of a "live" range.
Fred

[Sim G]

UKPSA holster cleared?!! There are an ever increasing number of baffoons bringing their PC and H&S rubbish from their daily grind and then attempt to transpose that on the sport. Those free thinking shooters amongst us need to give these people large doses of STFU!!