8x57 IS / 8mm Mauser Results

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All handloading data posted on Full-Bore UK from 23/2/2021 must reference the published pressure tested data it was sourced from, posts without such verification will be removed.
Any existing data without such a reference should treated as suspect and not used.

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Forum rules
All handloading data posted on Full-Bore UK from 23/2/2021 must reference the published pressure tested data it was sourced from, posts without such verification will be removed.
Any existing data without such a reference should be treated as suspect and not used.

Use reloading information posted here at your own risk. This forum (http://www.full-bore.co.uk) is not responsible for any property damage or personal injury as a consequence of using reloading data posted here, the information is individual members findings and observations only. Always verify the load data and be absolutely sure your firearm can handle the load, especially older ones. If in doubt start low and work your way up.
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WelshShooter
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8x57 IS / 8mm Mauser Results

#1 Post by WelshShooter »

I finally got around to loading up some 8mm Mauser ammunition using Reload Swiss RS50. So far I've had good results with this powder with .223 remington, .308 winchester, 6.5x47 Lapua and .303 British so now it was time to play with it in the 8mm Mauser.

I have a Zastava M48 which is essentially a Yugoslavian copy of the kar98k chambered for 8x57 IS. It's a really nice shooter and my existing good known load of Ramshot Big Game with a Privi 198gr makes it capable of knocking Fig11 targets down at 900m on Sennybridge F-range (OK I'll admit I only get 3/5 hits when the weathers good!).

I managed to get hold of some 8mm 200gr Sierra Matchking projectiles at the same price of the Privi bullets (I bought up all the supply and not willing to share the source for obvious reasons!!) so I started up a loading session to maximise the potential gain of this projectile. I also happen to have a MagnetoSpeed sporter so would use that in conjunction with the standard procedure for documenting a good load. The MagnetoSpeed fitted onto the barrel once the cleaning rod was removed. I used the slightly thicker rubber base to try and stabilise it underneath the barrel.

Here's a couple of pics of the ol' gal.
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The below is a summary table of the results, including starting load and incremental step. CAUTION: LOAD AT YOUR OWN RISK!! I followed the starting load of Vihtavouri N-140 (which so far has been a good indicator of the above calibres) and found that at a powder mass of 42.7gr with a 200gr Speer SP I should be getting a muzzle velocity of approximately 2169fps. From my data I had an average of 2163fps (5 shots) so I'd say it's a pretty safe starting point, and continued to shoot. Increments were at 1% (0.5gr) loading 5 bullets at each step, but only loaded enough up to 46.2gr to see what the results were like. Shooting distance was 100m and I was seated at a bench using a front and rear sandbag, squeezing the rear ever so slightly to align my front sight perfectly. Sights were set at 200m (the lowest setting) and I was aiming with a 6 o'clock hold on the target. I maintained the same point of aim for every single shot in the series so not to introduce any errors.

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This first target are the first 20 shots, 5 shots per powder mass, 4 different groups (42.7gr; 43.2gr; 43.7gr; 44.2gr). The first 15 bullets shot quite low, but you can see the last group loaded at 44.2gr were starting to pick up a wee bit and started to form some level of grouping (where the fifth bullet went, who knows).
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This next picture shows the last 20 shots, again, 5 shots per powder mass, 4 different groups (44.7gr; 45.2gr; 45.7gr; 46.2gr). You can now really see the groups forming, and the bullets are impacting exactly where I wanted them to go. One of the groups produced an ES velocity of 4fps across 5 rounds, I could hardly believe it myself. I'll be more convinced once I've managed to repeat this and test against different sensitivities of the MagnetoSpeed! At this point average velocity was approx. 2,307fps so is still quite moderate.

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The first chart shows the velocity of each individual shot within a powder mass group. Notice how little spread is at 45.2gr! I added a 6-order polynomial line to show a "line of best fit" of sorts (sorry, only have Excel to work with on my personal computer!) which shows that the velocity change plateau's at 45.2gr-45.7gr, I shall repeat this range to see if any change in powder mass further changes velocity.

The second chart shows the average velocity per powder group (left x-axis) and the standard deviation & extreme spread per powder group (right axis). The data shows two "nodes" of stable velocities; 43.7gr and 45.2gr; such that the velocity spread remains tight at these loadings. Given the good accuracy, point of impact and decent velocity; I shall continue working with 45.2gr-45.7gr and also continue loading higher powder charges until I reach approximately 2,400fps velocity. Just to point out, at this moment in time there is no issue with the cases or primers that are normally associated with "high pressure" loads. All cases were full length sized and the bolt was very easy to open upon shooting. Although these should not be used as a sign of over-pressure loads they do provide comfort for me along with the chrono'd velocities.

I had a great day on Saturday shooting and hope this helps out any shooters who might be looking to using this powder in 8mm Mauser.

:wales:

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EDIT: Whoops, forgot the summary table!
ukrifleman
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Re: 8x57 IS / 8mm Mauser Results

#2 Post by ukrifleman »

A great report and very opportune! clapclap

I am currently working up loads for my Gew98 with TR140 powder, 198gn PPU FMJ bullets, N/S PPU brass and CCI 200 primers.

So far, a charge of 43.0gn has produced an average M/v of 2061fps with an E/s of 82fps, measured with my Chrony F1.

This load appears well underpowered resulting in dirty cases, slightly protruding primers and a best group of 5 MOA at 100m, fired off a bench using a front rest with a 6 o'clock hold.

I am aware that RS50/TR140 are supposed to be one and the same and it will be interesting to see how for I have to go to get a presentable load.

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Use this load data at your own risk.

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Re: 8x57 IS / 8mm Mauser Results

#3 Post by WelshShooter »

Thanks ukrifleman! I didn't talk about overall length or primer selection in the above so don't forget those will have some form of impact on velocity, plus I had used full length sized cases as opposed to your neck sizing. I don't know if you've noticed but I measured the PPU bullet diameter with a micrometer and they were pretty much at 0.322" diameter whereas the Sierra's measured as 0.323". This presents a problem if you neck size as I couldn't get enough bullet tension and could easily seat the bullet deeper with my bare hands.
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Re: 8x57 IS / 8mm Mauser Results

#4 Post by rox »

Interesting stuff. I had a similar flat spot with reduced velocity spreads at roughly the same charge weight with TR140/RS50 in .308.

Which batch is this?

..
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Re: 8x57 IS / 8mm Mauser Results

#5 Post by WelshShooter »

RS50
Date of manufacture 05/2014
Pack No 2115
lasbrisas

Re: 8x57 IS / 8mm Mauser Results

#6 Post by lasbrisas »

I will be doing this at some point in the near future for my 1938 K98 sniper, currently using prvi 8mm match ammo, I have so many different calibres that I have been concentrating on the one's you can't buy ammo for such as the 2 jap cals and 7.35 carcano.
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Re: 8x57 IS / 8mm Mauser Results

#7 Post by WelshShooter »

lasbrisas wrote:I will be doing this at some point in the near future for my 1938 K98 sniper, currently using prvi 8mm match ammo, I have so many different calibres that I have been concentrating on the one's you can't buy ammo for such as the 2 jap cals and 7.35 carcano.
You'll need to be careful with the privi factory ammo. They specifically make two kinds: 8mm Mauser and 8x57 IS. The former has a lower velocity compared with the latter and in my experience I found that I had to set my sights to 5-600m to get it on paper at 100m! I had no issue with the latter, shot as expected. Check privies website for the velocities. I belive the reason for the difference is that the 8mm mauser is designed for the old style gew88 which has a bore diameter of .318" whereas the 8x57 IS is designed for the kar98 .323" bore diameter.
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Re: 8x57 IS / 8mm Mauser Results

#8 Post by ovenpaa »

Good work! An ES of 4fps with any load is spectacular and it is especially impressive to read about someone taking the time with load development for an M48 as opposed to the latest open rifle at an F Class meeting.
/d

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Re: 8x57 IS / 8mm Mauser Results

#9 Post by WelshShooter »

Thanks for your kind words David! I actually laughed when I saw that result as I've not yet got the ES for my 6,5x47 Lapua down to single digits yet.

I'll no doubt be repeating this entire process when I get the chance to load up some Sierra's in my Lee Enfield! I just need to figure out how to fit the MagnetoSpeed Sporter to the stock and give a reliable reading...
lasbrisas

Re: 8x57 IS / 8mm Mauser Results

#10 Post by lasbrisas »

WelshShooter wrote:
lasbrisas wrote:I will be doing this at some point in the near future for my 1938 K98 sniper, currently using prvi 8mm match ammo, I have so many different calibres that I have been concentrating on the one's you can't buy ammo for such as the 2 jap cals and 7.35 carcano.
You'll need to be careful with the privi factory ammo. They specifically make two kinds: 8mm Mauser and 8x57 IS. The former has a lower velocity compared with the latter and in my experience I found that I had to set my sights to 5-600m to get it on paper at 100m! I had no issue with the latter, shot as expected. Check privies website for the velocities. I belive the reason for the difference is that the 8mm mauser is designed for the old style gew88 which has a bore diameter of .318" whereas the 8x57 IS is designed for the kar98 .323" bore diameter.
Ok Thanks for that, I will check it out. I must admit I have never seen more than one type for sale, I knew that earlier rifles had a slightly smaller diameter bore but everyone just seems to sell it as 8mm Mauser.
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