Incendiary ammunition and rounds exceeding 19.1mm now banned

[spikedueller]

A fellow cartridge collector has just informed me that Hampshire Police have sent him an email saying all incendiary ammuntion and rounds exceeding 19.1mm are now banned and we must surrender them.

We both have the correct variations to posses these and I cannot find anything on their website or the ECRA, BASC, BCON or any changes in the last Guidance (not law) dated November 2014 to the police.

Anyone else had an email?

[tackb]

I thought incendiary and ap / explosive was already prohibited ?

as far as I'm aware inert cannon shells are not restricted?

[Blackstuff]

Surely that would take a legislative change (primary??) as an amendment firearms act?

Does "incendiary" include tracer?

I'd be going back to the police to find out where the authority for this came from before handing anything over just yet.

[ovenpaa]

My collectors condition is exactly the same as the newer collecting conditions issued by Hampshire and only allows me to collect up to 19,1mm as an FAC holder, not sure how I stand as and RFD.

[Mezzer]

Surely that would take a legislative change (primary??) as an amendment firearms act?

Does "incendiary" include tracer?

I'd be going back to the police to find out where the authority for this came from before handing anything over just yet.

The 2014 Home Office Guide to Firearms Licensing Law (Chapter 3, para 15) specifically states that tracer ammunition is NOT prohibited.

Mezzer

[spikedueller]

Incendiary, armour piercing and expanding are all indeed "prohibited" however special exemptions exist for bona-fide collectors. I have a FAC with conditions that allow me to purchase and possess all of the above upto 30mm. My colleague once had his to upto 120mm.

I am trying to get a copy of the email as it would indeed require a change in the law, I suspect it maybe someone new who is unfamiliar with the legislation, although the latest text from my colleague indicates it may be to do with changes in the explosives regs.

Cannon rounds are a bit of a grey area, technically if the projectle is AP but inert, you still need a suitably varied FAC to own it.
Curiously aerial bombs are now covered by the legislation so an inert 500lb paveway is ok but an inert 2pdr round on your shelf could get you into a lot of trouble.

Part of the problem now is that the guidance to Police keeps slipping in additional advice. Did anyone notice the statement that you now cannot borrow or use a "high energy rifle" e.g .50 cal and that these cannot be kept as "club guns". It's not law but it slipped into the November 2014 document.

[Gaz]

Part of the problem now is that the guidance to Police keeps slipping in additional advice. Did anyone notice the statement that you now cannot borrow or use a "high energy rifle" e.g .50 cal and that these cannot be kept as "club guns". It's not law but it slipped into the November 2014 document.

The police got the Home Office to authorise at-will rewrites of the "guidance" [de facto law] whenever they want. It's legislation by arbitrary decree.

The HME thing relates to categories of club approval and someone very boring trying to restrict lawful shooting through odd interpretations. Rifle clubs are approved for target shooting with rifles of no more than a certain muzzle energy - I believe 10,000 joules. As far as I know there is nothing in law specifying this energy limit. The ban-happy Home Office mindset goes as so: anything that falls outside the entirely arbitrary 10,000J limit thus cannot benefit from all the club guns exemptions.

Interestingly, the Home Office claims that .50BMG (etc) rifles can't be lent to other club members. Nothing in section 15(1) of the 1988 Act imposes any restriction on possession of firearms, as far as I can see. Another part of the law routinely ignored by our masters because it doesn't suit them.

[StanDeasy]

Is this relating to live ammunition or to inert/dummy rounds?

For live rounds, the restrictions may be a requirement of the Explosives Regs. rather than the Firearms Acts. I understand that the HSE have been re-classifying some types of ammunition into a more dangerous hazard type which would require them to be kept in a secure licensed storage facility.

[spikedueller]

The email is confusing as it implies all live ammunition exceeding 19.1mm, it does indeed seem to be tied to the HSE regs, th elatest is available for download here http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l150.htm

It does not mention Incendiary ammunition or the magical 19.1mm figure quoted in the email

The following HSE document specifically excludes incendiary ammunition
http://www.hse.gov.uk/explosives/ce-mar ... echnic.pdf

After some googling the 19.1mm figure seems to be specifically related to labelling and transport of ammunition particularly in aircraft and is quoted in some UN documentation, this however does not make it UK law so this needs clarification as to where this figure came from and are they actually saying no incendiary ammunition above 19.1mm.

It may all be another storm in a tea cup just like the confusion caused by the "shooters powders" regulations on P100 of the L150 document, further careful reading shows the exceptions for domestic use, just be mindful of the quantities stored.

[nickb834]

....
Interestingly, the Home Office claims that .50BMG (etc) rifles can't be lent to other club members. Nothing in section 15(1) of the 1988 Act imposes any restriction on possession of firearms, as far as I can see. Another part of the law routinely ignored by our masters because it doesn't suit them.

Pretty sure there's nothing in the legislation as regards LBR's / LBP's and S1 shotguns being cert holder only (I might be wrong regards S1 shotgun) but the prevailing opinion of the FEO's is that you can't use anyone elses and they can't be club guns - althought Sportsmans association had a fight regards LBP's (A buckmark IIRC) as a club gun and won that fight.