Durham gun licence pilot goes national

[phaedra1106]

http://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2014- ... -national/

"The UK has some of the toughest gun laws in the world. The authority to possess firearms is only granted in limited circumstances and is subject to stringent control. We are strengthening guidance on firearms licensing as it is essential police are able to access all information that may be relevant to an applicant’s suitability to possess a firearm or shotgun, including information held by GPs.

– Norman Baker, Crime Prevention Minister

Reported earlier today on the Pigeon Watch forum, David Ilsley of BASC say they are looking into it and will report back tomorrow

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ ... ure/page-3

[Fedaykin]

The frustrating aspect is the insinuation that the law abiding shooting minority of this country are against medical checks.

We are not, we sign as such when we apply for a Shotgun or Firearms certificate. The issue is how does it get paid for, ACPO and the police in general appear to be plucking figures out of thin air! If we have to pay for the medical check (which unfortunately I think will come to pass) it has to be consistent and fair nationally. It shouldn't vary between force to force and Doctor to Doctor. Just the same as we want proper figures for how much it costs to process an application, not the £200 round figure that ACPO gave with no explanation.

The reality is fees are going up, we can't avoid that and to be fair our representative organisations accept that based upon the fact that there has been no fee rise since 2001. The issues are transparency, consistency and promptness of service! Three issues that currently are widely different depending in what Post Code you live in.

If we are being expected to pay more the costs need to be transparent and there needs to be a consistent level of service. I would also say there are many areas that could help bring down costs by better processes. The recent update of forms related to variation was a good start but there is much more that could be done. Frankly there is an absurd amount of paper being sent backwards and forwards in relation to firearms certificates with little benefit to public safety. Several processes could be moved online and the silly exercise of having to send back an often dog eared paper certificate when you run out of slots for ammunition is a vast waste of time, paper and money! Drivers have had a paper and counterpart card licence for years! Why not owners of guns? I would drop the whole having to record ammunition on a paper certificate altogether, it doesn't actually give a proper picture of ammunition usage especially with those who reload. Issue a card licence with your photo, fac number and class of guns you are allowed to own just like a driving licence. So rather then carry around two paper licences if you have a FAC and SC just carry one card with your photo printed on the front with FAC and SC number, signatures, force and on the reverse rifle calibres you are allowed to posses and in what number. Keep the counterpart paper licences at home.

The only time a paper or card licence is sent back is if you have a variation on a calibre required or gun owned. The card would just list what calibres you are allowed or moderators with a number allowed beside each one and the paper licence would have details of what is actually owned.

If somebody tries to buy more of a particular calibre rifle then is marked on the card the plod will come knocking when the dealer or individual informs them of a sale or transfer.

Finally switch to ten year licences which will again cut down on the huge amount of paper and money being wasted. Ten year licences will also reduce the blow of increased fees. A fair compromise I would think, also regular and transparent reviews of how the system is working and the costs to ensure it is managed properly and fairly. That way we don't have a crazy situation of no fee rises in 12 years leading to this current situation of the police demanding vast rises in what we have to pay.

[RicF]

I am aware West Mercia & Warwickshire (joint licencing department) now require an applicant to fund their own medical report should it be decided one is required.
While shooting organisations will say that the legislation puts the costs requirements on to the Police Forces, we as a shooter who wants our licences processed, are not going to get in to an argument as an individual with the licencing department.
That route will simply be a long drawn out legal process during which one would be unable to participate in the sport.
Unfortunately one is over a barrel in that situation.
I believe funding is a driver for all Police Forces lately and this is a natural result of that as has been said above.

Some sensible suggestions above btw, :goodjob:

[Christel]

A 10 year license is not going to happen in the light of shooters being vetted to the nth degree.

[Blackstuff]

I was listening to this drivel on the radio while getting ready to go shooting last night (BBC Newcastle) and the amount of rubbish being spouted was unbelievable, including by my Chief Constable. One wild accusation presented as a fact that REALLY rubbed me the wrong way and that was the claim that all of the people who let their certifcate(s) laspse in the last quarter were people who thought they wouldn't pass the "additional checks" that Durham has started doing!!?! I think they said 45 people had done so. As if there were a potential 45 Ryans/Hamiltons/Athertons in Durham alone that had decided that they were about to be pounced upon by the authorities!!

What they didn't bother to cover was;

1/ How many lapses there were in the quarters beforehand - to giove any sort of comparison whether this was the usual number
2/ That they hadn't actually asked the people why they'd let their certs lapse/expire i.e. The far more plausible explainations such as change of circumstances which would prevent someone from shooting e.g. financial, health problems, death etc etc

If anyone knows if these sorts of shows are available online to re-listen to i'd be most grateful if you could point me in the right direction. It was broadcast yesterday on BBC Newcastle between 4:30-5:15pm

[phaedra1106]

Linky in my first post and in the other one about it being on Look North,

http://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2014- ... -national/

Only 12Hrs left on the Look North one,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0070g1d

[Blackstuff]

That was a watered down version of what was on the radio, but it would appear it was a Chief Inspector in both broadcasts, rather than the CC.

Either way, as the people who "dropped out" were not asked why they dropped out, its pretty spurious to state that it was because of having to do the extra mental health questionnaire.

It also grinds my gears that the report presents it as something the applicant had to fill out, AFAIK it was your GP that had to do it and thats where the charge came from.

Has anyone notified BASC do you know Jeff?

[phaedra1106]

Indeed, linky in the first post for that as well

It was Chief Inspector Steve Ball on the look North interview, he's in charge of the firearms department now.

Jared and I are having a nice chat with him next Thursday about his application, hopefully all goes well, Mike Eveleigh at BASC reckons he's OK and has had many dealings with him. If it doesn't go well and we get a refusal then it's straight off to appeal with BASC supporting Jared.

EDIT

Just check the PW site, David from BASC has replied,

"Dear All,

A poor report with some misinformation - true enough Durham and a couple of other forces are running pilots, but none of these have yet been evaluated and there certainly there is no plan to roll out the Durham project across the UK.

David"

[phaedra1106]

And it gets worse, now reported on BBC North news is the added bonus of,

"It is now expanding the trial to add a voluntary questionnaire asking the applicants themselves direct questions about whether they have a history of suicidal thoughts, depression, bi-polar disorder or other neurological conditions."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-27306006

To me this all looks like a PR campaign by Durham firearms licensing to capitalise on the Horden shootings and to try and divert attention away from the fact the IPCC report put the blame for it squarely on their departments incompetence, poor training and management.

[Christel]

I hope our national organisations are on this like a hawk...