Berger Bullets

[Blu]

Well chaps over the past five weeks I have been trying out various Berger Bullets in different rifles, different bullet weights for the barrel twists of my rifles and I've bought a ton of powder doing it. To be honest I don't see what is so great about Berger bullets. For starters you would think at the price they charge for them they would all be the same friggin length. But no they are not, I measured seventy five .277 bullets and only eight of them were the same length, so for the price they charge they expect you trim them to the same length.

Now to the actual shooting, as stated I used a variety of powders, some from Bergers recommendations the rest from their reloading manual. Well for a so called premier bullet I was really disappointed with everything I shot. Hell in some cases such as with my Tikka 270 WSM using their 150Grn Target/Varminter bullet, some plain old cheapo Speer bullets that I had out preformed them in every way and don't even get me started on their 6.5 bullets.

IMHO Berger Bullets are overpriced for what they are. They don't do anything that Hornady, Nosler, and Sierra bullets can't do and in most cases those three I mentioned do it better. So there you have it, my tuppence worth and as far as I'm concerned, Berger Bullets are overpriced $hite.

To that end take a trip now to the raffle give away section of the forum were I will be putting up the Berger Reloading manual, it's been used but is in very good like new condition.

Blu

[Mr_Logic]

Are you measuring length to the tip or to the ogive?

[Steve E]

I had the same experience as Blu, about ten years ago. Tried Berger 155 VLDs and LTBs in my Target rifles. Loaded using N140 and IMR 4895 and H414 I could not get them to work at all. Did not matter what jump I used they didnot seem to work. At the time, the Sierra 155 Palma and the lapua 155 Scenar out performed the Bergers in all respects, especially on price.
What the new Bergers perform like I have no idea but at the price that they are, I will not be trying them. To my mind they are well overpriced and I am sure that the Sierra 2156 is just as good.

[The Cupcake Kid]

Are you measuring length to the tip or to the ogive?

I think we can be pretty sure the answer to that one will be "tip".

It really doesn't matter much at all what the overall length to the tip is (within reasonable limits). And in my experience and testing it doesn't matter too much what the length to the ogive is either (in terms of affecting group size).

We all bang on about how important consistency is when reloading rifle cartridges but I suspect there aren't many of us who actually know what makes a real difference in practical terms. You can measure everything to a fraction of an inch/grain and batch-sort accordingly, but out of all those measurements and operations you've carried out, which of them actually ends up shrinking your group size?

All I'd say on why Bergers are popular is:

a) they have a very comprehensive range of weights/calibres/types
b) they push the technological boundries of bullet design
c) they are used by a lot of very successful competitors in various matches around the world

None of these reasons automatically make them the best bullets out there, but having tested quite a few different manufacturer's bullets myself, I have found the particular .30 cal Bergers I use to be among the best available bullets for my purposes. They may not be the best for the OP, or the OP's rifles, but that doesn't mean Bergers are rubbish. it just means the OP hasn't got rifles/barrels which suit the Bergers he tried, or he didn't do enough load development to find one that did work.

It can take quite a bit of experimentation and load development to get some bullets (not just Bergers) to work well in any particular rifle. It can also take a bit of lateral thinking and trying things which some shooters say won't work, but actually they do.

Finally, the reason Bergers are so expensive (in the UK) is because they are a popular and successful manufacturer so they can keep their profit margins high all the way down their distribution chain. If Bergers weren't good bullets they would inevitably be cheaper. What is a little frustrating is the fact that Berger's dealers can't sell their bullets at big discounts because Berger doesn't like it. It's price fixing in a way, but unfortunately it's something we have to put up with if we want to shoot Bergers.

[Mr_Logic]

I do find Berger ridiculously expensive. But they do shoot well...

[Sim G]

Used them, never will again.....

[Blu]

The Cupcake Kid.

but that doesn't mean Bergers are rubbish. it just means the OP hasn't got rifles/barrels which suit the Bergers he tried, or he didn't do enough load development to find one that did work.

That's a rather big assumption on your part friend. Among my rifles I have heavy barrels, factory barrels, featherweight barrels to name but a couple. As I said I bought a ton of powder for each rifle, I tried Berger recommended loads, I tried loads within their recommended data minus or plus a few points of a grain here or there, I tried every bullet they have to fit the twist rate of the barrel for each particular bullet, I even tried bullets that weren't recommended for the twist rates of my rifles. I tried loading onto the lands, loading off the lands, I shot them from 100 - 400 yards and I was out shooting these bullets every day for the last five weeks as I am fortunate to own enough property to do so.

In my 6.5 Grendel which has never been fussy about which loads and bullets I have used in the past they preformed atrociously. Fortunately I didn't have to buy whole boxes of Berger bullets as we have a website over here that sells them on a buy and try basis so I am not left to with a large amount of bullets I don't want.

I think we can be pretty sure the answer to that one will be "tip".

There you go again, actually the bullets were measured to the ogive. So unless you were actually sitting beside me as I measured please don't assume anything.

Blu

[Blu]

Mr_Logic, I have answered the question you asked in my previous post.

Blu

[ovenpaa]

I gave up on Berger bullets a while ago as they did not suit my needs, about the only one I have for myself is the 180 Hybrid for my 7mm. My preference is Lapua Scenars, which will point nicely if needed plus I can change the angle of the meplat and blend to the ogive at any point, I can even control the diameter of the meplat very accurately so I tend to not bother with Bergers.

On the subject of the reloading book I skimmed it and gave it away next day, having said that I did enjoy the Litz book on Applied Ballistics For Long-Range Shooting.

[GazMorris]

Berger Bullets are overpriced $hite.

Two Individual and Team World Long Range Championships in a row suggests that you're wrong about the $hite part, but I agree with you about overpriced. They are ludicrously expensive over here in the UK (something like £0.55 a bang) so are about twice the price of Sierras and only very slightly better (IMHO.) I've tried the Berger 155LTB and the 155.5 fullbore in several of my rifles and had excellent results with both. The 155 was very tolerant of load length, but the 155.5 was a bit more finecky and needed to be jumped quite a bit to work really well. What has put me off is the price. I can pick up 2156s for half the price of Bergers and get excellent results with them too, so I don't feel the need to splash the extra cash.

Just my 2 penn'th.

Gaz

UPDATE - Interestingly enough, the Berger website lists the 155.5 fullbore bullet at $52.71 per 100 and the Sierra website lists the 2156 155 Palma Matchking at $40.32 per 100, so the missing markup is probably down to the importer.