Accuracy International AT released

[Strangely Brown]

I thought that AI had periodically used walther barrels for a long time!

This is my understanding as well!

As things stand, I believe Border barrels difficulties are manufacturing rather than financial.
Heaven forbid somebody should post the wrong information on the internet!!

[Dannywayoflife]

Don't see why AI couldn't approach armalon as their barrels are gaining a very very good rep there British and there cheaper than border or walther! Oh and being hammer forged should last even longer :)

[ovenpaa]

I got to have a good look at the AI AT308 today and I was impressed with what I saw. A bit of gossip came out of a conversation I had, apparently Border Barrels are in a bit of financial trouble and not all AI rifles carry their barrels anymore. Apparently if the barrel has a serial number with a 3 in it it's Border, if it's a 1, it's a Lothar Walther barrel. Now... this has me a little concerned, in respect that I had always believed it was the Border barrel that set their rifles ahead of the rest, if they're using Lothar Walther, doesn't this mean they're probably no better than a rem 700 now? I might be far off on that statement and I'm certainly not trying to put rem 700's down, they're excellent, it's just AI's rifles are `more excellent...` if you know what I mean. Based on that info, what do people think? Would a Border barrel AI AT308 shoot better than an Lothar Walther AI AT308?

Given the alleged capital being pushed into Border from outside of the UK there should not be any issues with funding. My worry would be any potential quality issues as the manufacturing process is moved plus the loss of two very key members of the original Border staff. Lothar Walther barrels are renown for quality so I would not compare them to the standard Remington offerings and I certainly would not be unduly concerned if one was fitted. Certainly right now I would prefer a late 2013/early 2014 barrel from LW to Border.

Regarding Armalon, I doubt they could keep up with the potential AI demand as last I heard they were only running the one barrelling machine.

[HALODIN]

Thanks for the info. Is there any chance an older, lightly used AI AW308 would shoot better than a modern AI AT308? The AI AW I shot the other week was shooting < .25 MOA and I would be particularly dissapointed if with the same ammo, I couldn't get that same level of accuracy in an AI AT308. Do you think there's any risk of this happening? I'm only considering an AI based on that level of performance.

Any thoughts?

[meles meles]

< 0.25 MoA ?

*Gobsmacked*

Would these be silver bullets seated on 34 grains of pixie dust?

[ovenpaa]

Some rifles are always going to be better than others, even identical base models will have differences. Any reasonable 7,62x51 AI should shoot to under 3/4MOA with reasonable ammunition at 200, better than 1/2MOA is exceptional for any factory rifle. If you find an AI that holds quarter minute beyond 300 it is exceptional and just because a rifle holds 1/4 at 100 does not mean it will do the same at 600.

So to answer your question, a standard 7,62x51 AI off a standard bipod holding 1/4 MOA is very good going regardless of ammunition.

[HALODIN]

I just double checked on a tape measure to see if what I said was accurate and I would say pretty much .25 moa, but certainly < .33 MOA. It was with Hornady 168g TAP. After I pulled the target back, I wish I'd tried a bit harder as I think there was a little room for improvement. Pixie dust - Maybe a little...

< 0.25 MoA ?

*Gobsmacked*

Would these be silver bullets seated on 34 grains of pixie dust?

[HALODIN]

Thanks, this is the sort of information that isn't easy to come by, nobody ever seems keen on putting an upper limit on accuracy. I have asked many times!

Understood, I guess this is one of those exceptional rifles then. Each time I've shot it, it clover leafs as a minimum and with the Hornady TAP it was even better. I wish I'd put some more rounds through it to get a better average. Now you've explained what's possible, it makes me want to make him an offer!

What would you say is possible with a custom rifle in terms of MOA and factory match ammo @ 100 yards? I appreciate your point about the moa varying over distance, but in your opinion will a custom rifle reliably do .25 or better @ 100 yards?

Some rifles are always going to be better than others, even identical base models will have differences. Any reasonable 7,62x51 AI should shoot to under 3/4MOA with reasonable ammunition at 200, better than 1/2MOA is exceptional for any factory rifle. If you find an AI that holds quarter minute beyond 300 it is exceptional and just because a rifle holds 1/4 at 100 does not mean it will do the same at 600.

So to answer your question, a standard 7,62x51 AI off a standard bipod holding 1/4 MOA is very good going regardless of ammunition.

[ovenpaa]

Will a custom rifle reliably shoot better than 1/4MOA at 100 yards? In .308 maybe slightly better however it will be the exception as opposed to the norm. I would go further and say regardless of what people say the average or even top end factory rifle is probably not going to shoot much better than .75 for the average shooter. Personally I regard such reports with suspicion unless someone like Vince B was there to measure and confirm it!

The standard AI/AW chamber is usually cut at the more generous end of NATO specification in order to chamber varying rounds in varying conditions plus they are throated a tad on the long side so they cope well with most ammunition. Certainly it is possible to get better accuracy from an AI but not one chambered in 7,62x51. I remember an excited Darrel Evans ringing me one evening, he had just shot a .116" 5 shot group however it was off a machine rest with an AW chambered in 6,5x47 with JLK bullets and Darrel is an exceptional shooter able to extract the very last bit of accuracy from that particular round. Yes you may see 3 shot groups that are better than .25 from time to time however it really has got to be an exceptional rifle to do this with 5 shot groups consistently. The right range conditions count for a lot as well.

[HALODIN]

Thanks for spelling it out for me. I guess I need to put some more rounds through that rifle to see if I was just lucky, at least it will accurately set my expectations. The last thing I want is to be disappointed with a new AI AT308!

Thanks!