The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

How about something along the lines of the old UKPSA basic Practical Pistol training course..??

That covered the basics of safety of loaded firearms and holsters so at least people would be safe to carry. After that it would be up to the individual to practise what they consider their likely scenario of using a firearm..?

Chuck wrote:Blackstuff, maybe because it's been done to death and usually descends into a spate of personal attacks? There is MUCH more to it than weapon handling and bi monthly training is useless because that is what people would work to! Anyone with an aptitude can learn at a surprising pace - and of course training must not be the old "standing at a firing point club shooting routine" jeez, moving with firearms a the best of times gives RO's the skitters..and as for holstering a LOADED firearm, GOD FORBID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The UK is so anally retentive about such things it really would be a tall order to get it to happen..

- Mandatory minimum bi-monthly training/practice for the first two years before CCW issued, monthly training/practice thereafter.

Pointless - takes way too long and skills won't build.

It's a huge topic when you add in all the theory - theory that should help AVOID a confrontation. Plus of course kit and firearm selection choice of ammo, sights, flashlights etc etc..all part of carrying for self defence..Low light shooting, confined spaces etc etc..Then there's the phsychology of it all- could you, would you..emotional aftermath etc etc..ALLof that and more makes up defensive firearm training.

Worried about terrorists, well there's 5000 seemigly in the EU - so they must have counted them. What about the ones they do not know about.

Ex Military armed on doors - no way, totally wrong mindset and attitude. Also what makes them so special when plenty of law abiding civvies could be trained just as well, if not better? No disrespect to ex forces but being in the forces does not mean you know how to handle a firearm safely in a civilian environment does it? Throws cat in pigeons ...

Some are aready alowed to carry a PPW in the UK if you show need, no training required the last i heard.


Quote:
The baseline would be the FAC application procedure.
- Mandatory minimum bi-monthly training/practice for the first two years before CCW issued, monthly training/practice thereafter.


Why would you set the bar any higher than it is for the police to carry firearms, two weeks basic training.

And that's rub - BASIC! IT MUST be continuous and realistic.. Blatting away at non realistic targets and taking all day long to do it is a waste of time and effort.

As I said, ordinary people can and will train more than cops, either here or in the US. Even in the US some cops will only do the minimum - but rest assured there are some seriously skilled cops pounding a beat!

https://youtu.be/23Jn1N_N-mQ

I honestly can't remember there ever being a discussion thread on the nuts and bolts of a CCW system in the UK? Its mentioned now and again but usually with just people setting up whichever camp they're in and little actual discussion about the ins and outs.

The 'training' I would have in mind (for the physical/trigger time part) would be a mixture of police type training and what's referred to in US training circles as 'fighting pistol/rifle/shotgun' classes. Not sure why people are jumping all over something without even asking what is meant/making assumptions Remember, this is a fantasy world so extreme that we're talking about CCW in the UK! Making the 'leap' that actual proper training is being suggested is surely a trifling matter!

'Training' would also include classroom type training in the mental/legal/psychological aspects. Likewise, assessment wouldn't simply be getting a score on a target.

I'm sorry to say that I totally disagree with the South African/US approach where you can seemingly do an ultra basic one day course and you're free to go on your merry way.

Blackstuff;

I'm sorry to say that I totally disagree with the South African/US approach where you can seemingly do an ultra basic one day course and you're free to go on your merry way.

Agreed there.

Anyone who bets their life on a $60 Carry Class is asking for trouble. As you say there are many many areas to it - call it whatever name you like.

The NRA have Personal Protection Inside the Home and Personal Protection Outside the Home which covers concealed carry. The instructor manuals are weighty tomes indeed and there's no way they care covered in a day. They are the BEGINNING of the training, not the end...

Those one day classes are just safety classes and I despair watching people standing square on taking careful aim and trying to shoot tight groups / emptying 17 / 30 round magazines in one go whilst telling me they have just got their CCW and are doing "target practice" or "tactical shooting"...we call it "going to jail and attempted/ actual murder" .

Defensive firearms and competition are different skills though the safety aspect is important...again, this is something that people can only choose to observe, they cannot be fgorced NOT to do dumbass stuff with guns.

Haven't looked in here for a while - seemed full of idots, Airsofters - and a few Americans who really should know better.

http://www.armbritain.com/

Ordnance:

Quote:
As I said, ordinary people can and will train more than cops, either here or in the US. Even in the US some cops will only do the minimum - but rest assured there are some seriously skilled cops pounding a beat!

Thats my point why would you make civilians train more than is required for the police to be carrying on the streets.Have you spent anyf time with police on ranges doing this type of shooting? Why not? There are umpteen reasons why you would, accountability for one! Maybe police should be better trained?

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BASIC! IT MUST be continuous and realistic
They seem to mannage here with basic training, we are talking about police on the beat not the SAS or Delta force, no police force trains all its officers to that level. Maybe they should but they do not have the budget, civvies who take the responsibility of carry seriously will spend the money. However, MONEY should NOT be a barrier to self defence.

As for the chestnut about terrorists - it is just that, and old chestnut with the debate being narrowed to one threat. How about old folks, disabled people, folks with families, those who live in sinkhole estates (no silly comments about "move" ..that isn't always an option. In short people who respect their lives and want to defend them, we're not on about the fools who think it's better for them or their kids to be raped and killed. Anyway, looking at all those reports, NONE of those trerrorists seem to be able to shoot straight - thankfully..whether in semi auto or spraying automatic fire the rounds fired / victim count is thankfully low....

I think you misunderstood, there was no training course for South African CCW.
Just a firearms license. I suppose a benefit of a country where most blokes had military or police experience.
So yes, 2 years mandatory military service for anyone wanting a CCW! That should sort it out...

Have you spent anyf time with police on ranges doing this type of shooting? Why not? There are umpteen reasons why you would, accountability for one! Maybe police should be better trained?

Yes there are police that shoot at the club, easy to spot when they load the gun before leaving the range.

Maybe they should but they do not have the budget, civvies who take the responsibility of carry seriously will spend the money. However, MONEY should NOT be a barrier to self defence.

Civlians mannage the best here without any formal training.

CCW?

Gazoo wrote:CCW?

Carry Condoms Whenever.

Gazoo wrote:CCW?

PPW, in the UK.

CCW?
just joking, thought it might have attracted some FFS head banging comments .
Sometimes you just like to pull the pin and throw one in to see what happens?

Gazoo wrote:CCW?
just joking, thought it might have attracted some FFS head banging comments .
Sometimes you just like to pull the pin and throw one in to see what happens?

I thought it was more a case of tl;dr

ah well, sometimes its more a case of WWJD