The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Dougan wrote:

joe wrote:

Dougan wrote:Apologies Ordnance; rude of me - To be fair though it's not relevant for most of the UK...

I disagree gun and knife crime is increasing and burglars are usually crack heads who are always armed with knives ! Don't believe the home office bo...cks
Here's an example of an SGC holder using his shotgun to defend his life and wasn't charged even the judge warned that burgars who break into sgc holders house to expect to be shot

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... inals.html

A few EU countries allow a liance for self defence in home as sole justification for a firearm and some of those countries have a far lower crime rate then Uk
Case in point Portugal

Don't get me wrong, I was referring to guns for defense in general (including CC or in the car, like some places in the US), but do actually think that there is an argument for a gun at home (only) for self defense...but personally I think that would need to be on a 'case by case' basis as opposed the free-for-all they have in the US...

...and I didn't really want to get into the whole 'guns for defense' discussion again (we have had it a few times...), but I was trying to make the point that if we want .22 pistols back for sporting purposes, then the two campaigns/discussions should be totally separated.

gunlike

And pick the battles in the right order. 22 pistols is the first one. Win that first.

Don't get me wrong, I was referring to guns for defense in general (including CC or in the car, like some places in the US), but do actually think that there is an argument for a gun at home (only) for self defense...but personally I think that would need to be on a 'case by case' basis as opposed the free-for-all they have in the US...

But YES they are separate issues and should be kept as such.

Chuck wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I was referring to guns for defense in general (including CC or in the car, like some places in the US), but do actually think that there is an argument for a gun at home (only) for self defense...but personally I think that would need to be on a 'case by case' basis as opposed the free-for-all they have in the US...

Sixshot...now you can see why I didn't want to get into this subject ( )

Chuck wrote:But YES they are separate issues and should be kept as such.

We agree! razz

Dougan wrote:

Chuck wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I was referring to guns for defense in general (including CC or in the car, like some places in the US), but do actually think that there is an argument for a gun at home (only) for self defense...but personally I think that would need to be on a 'case by case' basis as opposed the free-for-all they have in the US...

Sixshot...now you can see why I didn't want to get into this subject ( )

It's a hornet's nest I know, but I guess you, me and Chuck are on the keep the issues separate page. Like I said, fight for 22 pistols first then think carefully about the next move.

breacher wrote:
Get one - you wont regret it.

Yesterday I shot a 50 / 9v at the Imperial McQueen - an all time best for me.

Will be under serious consideration :)

joe wrote:

Dougan wrote:Apologies Ordnance; rude of me - To be fair though it's not relevant for most of the UK...

I disagree gun and knife crime is increasing and burglars are usually crack heads who are always armed with knives ! Don't believe the home office bo...cks
Here's an example of an SGC holder using his shotgun to defend his life and wasn't charged even the judge warned that burgars who break into sgc holders house to expect to be shot

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... inals.html

A few EU countries allow a liance for self defence in home as sole justification for a firearm and some of those countries have a far lower crime rate then Uk
Case in point Portugal

Regarding the Home Office's view that allowing firearms for self defence would likely increase violence we have asked them at least twice to provide some supporting evidence for this view point. We contacted them after the Charlie Hebdo attacks citing examples/stats that suggest that it is the opposite that is likely to happen(Former secretary General of Interpol also suggest it would be the best way to protect citizens from terrorism). They did not provide any supporting evidence which I do think is pretty damning especially when innocent peoples lives are at risk and they themselves admit that help won't be immediate.

I understand Czech Republic, Slovakia and Italy do have some form of Concealed Carry and it does seem to work there without any issues. Even the US when looked at in greater detail isn't so bad. It's a very complicated issue. The problem isn't gun's it's social/economic. Looking at areas of the UK with high gun crime/violent crime and I bet there will be similarities with areas in the US with high gun crime despite strict gun laws. Drugs, inner city poverty, gangs etc.



Of course as others have said right now our main battle is getting .22 pistols back for target shooting as others have said we do see these debates as separate sides of the same coin and they should be treated as such. There is certainly a lot of things going on the in the background just now that hopefully will get something moving. The main goal is getting more people involved in writing to their M.Ps in support of changing the law to get .22's back on section 1. This will greatly help our teams efforts.

Sixshot...now you can see why I didn't want to get into this subject ( )

Regarding the Home Office's view that allowing firearms for self defence would likely increase violence we have asked them at least twice to provide some supporting evidence for this view point.

There isn't any!

Have any of the shooting organisations starting talking to the government yet for section one 22 pistols. ? We have proper Tory government Cameron is hunting man granted he is spineless through !

One aurgment could be said to them is that .22 pistols are already allowed on section one tickets abit with long barrels and a rod out back so they may as well have th em legal with a shorter barrel and no thing out the back ! As FAC holders are law abiding the concealment element is not going to happen as one can already cut down the long barrel on his lbp or on a shotgun


Also NI and the rest of Europe could be brought up

After the last massacre it was proved the gun crime by FAC holders was next to none

Unfortunately we have no national body whose function is to champion gun ownership.

All our "national" self interest organisations champion is shooting disciplines and in the main ignore gun ownership 'till a disaster comes along and then shaft each other in trying to keep their little area going with the consequence that we all loose out.

Other than those times the gun ownership issue seems to be ignored or put into the too difficult box.

Our lunatic firearms legislation is a direct result of lack of cogent arguments and a strong unified approach on behalf of shooters.

Divided we are represented and divided we are shafted, again and again and again whilst our "organisations" keep their heads in the sand on our behalf.

dromia wrote:Unfortunately we have no national body whose function is to champion gun ownership.

All our "national" self interest organisations champion is shooting disciplines and in the main ignore gun ownership 'till a disaster comes along and then shaft each other in trying to keep their little area going with the consequence that we all loose out.

Other than those times the gun ownership issue seems to be ignored or put into the too difficult box.

Our lunatic firearms legislation is a direct result of lack of cogent arguments and a strong unified approach on behalf of shooters.

Divided we are represented and divided we are shafted, again and again and again whilst our "organisations" keep their heads in the sand on our behalf.

gunlike

Like you said, we need a UNIFIED body, one that focuses on gunownership above all, not just shooting disciplines.