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alexham wrote:

Couldn't agree less with much of the above....... Good tools are a joy to use and (usually) give a better result...and not just in reloading. Naturally its down to how much you can afford as with all things.

As for dumping brass rather than trimming...... WHY?!!!! Buy decent brass and it will go many reloads / trims and end up cheaper in the long run.

DaveT, I was not advocating buying cheap tools. Redding does not make cheap tools and, as Spud pointed out, the trimmer is more expensive than Wilson. When I said "humble" I meant basic - i.e. not powered by a drill etc.

I agree that good quality tools are a joy to use, but my point was that some tools are not essential and some totally unnecessary, especially for starting on a limited budget. I am in this sport to shoot. The use of tools is incidental and often a chore, but we are all different!

We have a member on this forum whose cases last only 4 reloads! Others may have unlimited supply of once fired cases, from friends that do not reload.

Sounds like we are in 'furious agreement' ....Great stuff..... Love to know what sort of nuclear loads are trashing cases after 4 firings!

I see where you are coming from now alex, i think you worded your thoughts wrongly but make sence now, why are this members cases only lasting 4 firings. With a little technique cases can last a lot lot longer, if the technique is not known how hoew to make these last longer , this is the place to learn it

Your keen F/TR shooter running high MV's is going to be hammering .308 brass and I have seen slack primer pockets in half a dozen shots...

ovenpaa wrote:Your keen F/TR shooter running high MV's is going to be hammering .308 brass and I have seen slack primer pockets in half a dozen shots...

Strewth!!!! My loads must be really limp.....I want / get at least 15-20 reloads out of my Lapua 308 cases

I'll admit that I am a bit of a 'kit junkie', and like to buy the best on the rare occation I can afford it - so I don't need much encouraging....Also, when I started reloading i bought one of those multi-draw things which still has some empty draws...so I must need a few more bits and bobs

Unfortunatly, as for most of us, budget has been a major factor - so the Lee trimmer will do nicely for now - plus I like the simplicity of it, and have a half decent cordless to put it in...

As the discussion is going well about equipment ('furious agreement' :lol: ) - I'll tell you which dies I've gone for....which should please and upset in equal measure :P....

....for the 6.5 I went for the Lee delux set - I need both full and neck sizing, and for 35 quid, where can you go wrong? . I also got a Lee universal decapper, so I can decap everything before tumbling.

....the budget went on the .308 - I went for a Forster set with a micrometer seating die

I think what WE need to bear in mind the fact that these guys asking for advice are mainly newbies to the black art they are not bench rest shooters/F class shooters there shooting sticks are probably fairly basic or even a milsurp.
So lets not confuse them or try to teach them to run before they can walk.
They need basic advice a Lee case trimmer is fine to start until they get the idea. If they want to sell the wife in to slavery re morgage the house for a all singing set up at a later date fine.
But they have to get the basics right. Lets not scare them off with tales of cases only being good for 4 firings. Trimmers that are the best in the world that you must have. Slowly Slowly does it.

+1 Alpha, and more to the point many many shooters stop with the gear they started with and never have any need/reason to upgrade.

Alpha1 wrote:I think what WE need to bear in mind the fact that these guys asking for advice are mainly newbies to the black art they are not bench rest shooters/F class shooters there shooting sticks are probably fairly basic or even a milsurp.

I'm not a total newbie (not said in an indignant way smile2 ) - I started loading for my smle last year, and agree with you that you don't need to go mad for old milsurp rifles...I've been using a 30 year old second hand press and dies, and managed to make some reasonable ammo...Though unnecessary I found that I could get a seating consistancy of +/- 2 thou; but it took a lot of faffing with measuring and tweaking the die with a screwdriver - The .308s I'll be loading are for a TR rifle, and I want to get spot on consistant seating with the minimum of fuss...which is why I thought I'd go for a decent set of dies from the off....

Dougan wrote:

Alpha1 wrote:I think what WE need to bear in mind the fact that these guys asking for advice are mainly newbies to the black art they are not bench rest shooters/F class shooters there shooting sticks are probably fairly basic or even a milsurp.

I'm not a total newbie (not said in an indignant way smile2 ) - I started loading for my smle last year, and agree with you that you don't need to go mad for old milsurp rifles...I've been using a 30 year old second hand press and dies, and managed to make some reasonable ammo...Though unnecessary I found that I could get a seating consistancy of +/- 2 thou; but it took a lot of faffing with measuring and tweaking the die with a screwdriver - The .308s I'll be loading are for a TR rifle, and I want to get spot on consistant seating with the minimum of fuss...which is why I thought I'd go for a decent set of dies from the off....

wilson dies are cheap and are the best as well but youll need an arbor press

DaveT wrote:

ovenpaa wrote:Your keen F/TR shooter running high MV's is going to be hammering .308 brass and I have seen slack primer pockets in half a dozen shots...

Strewth!!!! My loads must be really limp.....I want / get at least 15-20 reloads out of my Lapua 308 cases

No Dave, I think your loads are normal and you are using top quality cases.

I think there was a member in "Shoulder Set Back 308" thread that wrote that his cases had enlarged primer pockets after only 4 reloads. I did reply with a suggestion that he was probably overloading, but I could not be more specific without more details and one has to be careful not to cause offence.

Alex