Misfires/hangfires - how long?

[Blackstuff]

Opinions vary You can't do the 'range' procedure if shooting timed competitions. Whichever way you do it, keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction is the main thing.

[Chapuis]

safety shouldn't be compromised for speed.

A competition is just that a competition it's not as if your life depended on it.

[Maggot]

CSR/Mill is usually cock hook and look or clear the ruddy thing.

Bolt is usually 30 seconds. The MOD seem to have shifted this down to the ACF as we now have that on the No8s and Cadet target rifles.

The theory as I get it is that if you give it a good tug it gets thrown clear (at your mate in then next pit!!!).

The thing is to keep the bolt closed and when you open it, keep your face away from the thing and your body and hand etc as clear as you can from the bolt.

As was seen recently with a barnard action (where the cheek piece caught the bent and fired the thing as a round was being withdrawn) missfires are not always down to the round, but can also be down to sticky actions etc. The round may be fine until you disturb the mechanism that fires it.

The best place for a round to go off is in a locked chamber under control, the worst place is where it can propel an unlocked lump off steel though its bolt catch and into your face/guts/nuts

That said, I have only experienced a hang fire with some very old, unsealed iranian .303 blank I was getting shot of on Century, it really was click....bang.

[Chapuis]

Like you say Maggot misfires/hangfires can also be down to the firearm caused by such things as a sticky action. Generally speaking you don't get too many problems with modern well maintained guns firing good ammunition. Most of the hangfires I have encountered over the years have been down to old ex military ammunition of dubious quality that has been stored improperly.
I can understand the military having two entirely different views on the matter of misfires/hangfires. Obviously in a combat environment the objective has to be to clear it as quickly as possible and to get the weapon back into action but in a training situation particularly with cadets safety has to be paramount.

A very long time ago a good friend of mine sustained a life threatening injury on the range that was eventually put down to poor unsuitable ex military .303 ammunition being fired by another shooter. My friend was acting as range officer or observing at the time and standing slightly to the rear of the shooter, his arms were raised at the time possibly holding his binoculars to his eyes. I can't recall what exactly I was told happened but somehow a round went off either in the breech or while it was being extracted and a piece of shrapnel entered my friends torso just under his armpit. There was sufficient energy for the shrapnel to enter his chest. My friend has been very suspicious of old military ammo ever since and was particularly wary of some Greek .303 stuff that turned up a few years ago which was prone to quite pronounced hangfires.

[Blackstuff]

safety shouldn't be compromised for speed.

A competition is just that a competition it's not as if your life depended on it.

Likewise safety be compromised for penny pinching/bragging rights over who has shot the oldest ammo in the most rickety gun.

It simply comes down to risk assessment for your equipment and environment. Well made firearms shooting well made, properly stored ammo provides next to no risk from hangfires. I only shoot modern firearms with new ammunition and feel no threat to my safety from immediately ejecting ammo that doesn't go bang when the trigger is pulled. 9/10 in my experience misfires (as opposed to hangfires, as i've never experienced one) occur due to the firearm not being operated properly, (magazine not inserted fully so no round when in at all, bolt not closing properly due to limp-wristing/poor mount etc), the other time its due to something being wrong with the primer/there not being one (which seems to be happening more frequently )

YMMV

[nickb834]

I'm aware of a 338 LM round that took circa 40 seconds to go off - and that's in the last 12 months, imagine what that would have done had it been on it's way out of the chamber when it let go.

For me - risk vs reward:

risk is bits of bolt in your face

reward is - I save a few seconds on a comp stage.

To be fair, I'm ex-army and sometimes the drills take over - without waiting 30 seconds (Particularly when shooting PSG) - this is a habit I'm trying to cure.

What I would say is this: on an MoD range under the RCO's control - it's not up to you (Unless you're the RCO) and if it goes wrong because you or a shooter didn't wait 30 seconds (As per the NRA RCO manual) - then I wouldn't fancy the report writing and investigation that occurs thereafter and what they'd have to say about it (of course you could fib)

30 seconds may well be an arbitrary figure plucked out of thin air, but in in lieu of any other agreed figure for use on MoD ranges - we're stuck with it and have to play by their rules.

Outside of MoD ranges, well that's a whole n'other ball game - but the position a club of mine is considering is that with an indoor only range and a shed load of members who haven't shot full bore or on MoD ranges - we're going to run the same rules on both so we reduce the inconsistencies.

[ovenpaa]

safety shouldn't be compromised for speed.

A competition is just that a competition it's not as if your life depended on it.