The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

dromia wrote:

Scotsgun wrote:If i were to mount a scope on an Enfield then i'd buy a quality 2nd hand / demonstrator scope. Ideally i'd go for a fixed power 6x42 and steer clear of the large objectives (8x56, etc).

Yank scopes tend to offer gimicks like balistic drop gauges, etc but the optic quality very rarely comes close to a decent european optic; Swarovski, Zeiss, Schmidt & Bender, etc.

A very good source of 2nd hand optics is Macleods of Tain. A genuine gent to deal with and honest.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h ... 9,r:11,s:0

I concur.

I'm a big fan of fixed magnification scopes. Good, second hand is a way of getting quality glass at a reasonable price. Personally I have a dozen Pecar scopes that I started collecting a few years ago when their prices were low and they were going out of production. I also rate the Bushnell Banner series of scopes as affordable new glass for stalking, not Pecar or Zeiss quality but for me the best value new low price scopes on the market. I also like the old low power steel tube Weavers and have one on my Slazenger .22 Hornet. The current crop of modern scopes are way over the top with more knobs and buttons that NASA and reticule clutter more akin to dazzle camouflage.

My best stalking scope is an old Ajack 4x mounted on my .303" and it can give at least an extra 20 minutes at dawn and dusk. Quality glass pays and second hand quality glass is better value, as are rifles.

Gregor is always worth a blether with and if you can't get up to Tain then a trawl through his lists and a phone call is well worthwhile.

Yes, but why if you can afford a quality Variable mag scope limit yourself to a fixed mag. My Nightforce 5.5-33x56 is a brilliant AID to accurate longer range shooting. Before I acquired the Nightforce I used to use my stalking scope a Swarovski 3-12x50.

Swarovski 3-12x50 at 1000x




Jenks

I have a few variable magnification scopes as well, including a Bushnell elite 8 -32, a Weaver Grand Slam 6 -20 and a fine old Bausch and Lomb 6 - 24. However what I've found is that I never use the variable magnification. If I buy a hi mag scope that its usually for its hi mag power and thats what I use it at. So for me the variable mag is not a must and I'd sooner put the money into better glass rather than variable mag, however when buying second hand you take what is on the go at the time, fixed or variable. I also have a Weaver T36 and a Sightron 24 and don't feel disadvantaged at all by their fixed power.

Still to each his own.

I'd be interested to see if I'm alone in not using the variable mag capacity on their scopes?

Jenks,

You're missing the point mate. Consider the actual rifle and have a look at that rail. Do you really believe that there is sufficient eye relief and physical space for a scope like that, you stated? Incidentally, no offence intended but i wouldn't ever use a Nightforce - especially on stalking rifle.

I remember being on the German Alpine course whilst the Belgians were experimenting with Nightforces (never bothered to find out which one) which proved far inferior to the other rigs in use. They were particularly poor in low light and night shooting exercises with a restricted field of view out beyond 600-800yds. I believe they swapped back to their issued, original S&B PMs after only a day or so.

What really cracks me up about variables is when you meet so many who haven't a clue how to use. You walk down the line on a target orientated group and so many of the scopes are set to the mag magnification. Then ask how many actually change it......

Similarly, have a peek at the stupid big scopes on so many stalkers rifles. Most stalkers are unlikely to shoot beyond 200yds yet it's now common to see scopes of greater than 16x.....and do they ever change the magnification? Do they bloody ell!

I have a stalking mate who does very well for himself and has all the gear. The local dealers get very excited when Danny walks into their shops - his most recent purchase was one of those new Blazer R8 rifles with a S&B PM II scope. He even paid another couple of hundred quid extra for the dealer to set it up for him. Now Danny knows what i did in the Army and has met a few of my mates so just can't understand why i don't use these huge variable mags. He refuses to believe what we were issued with despite seeing the photos.

So Danny and others like him get down next to me to zero his rifle. They may well be happy with their groups but more often not. I in turn set my scope to 6x and 99% of the time achieve 1/2 inch or less. I've tried to explain that setting the scope to max mag or close to is actually a distraction as it greatly magnifies their movements and makes it harder for them to concentrate on position and breathing. I've even proven it by having some reduce the mag on their scope and achieve better scores.

We then go out to longer ranges and its common for some to assume that i'm 'making do' with my 3-18x44 scope.They slap their rifles down, set to max mag of 32, 42 or even 56x. Do they know how to estimate range with theirs, can they focus just before and after the target to watch the thermals and predict wind, did they concentrate on real optical quality rather than big numbers? Did they hell! Any they wonder why they achieve no better. Danny still thinks i'm witholding some black art that allows me to shoot better than him, especially at longer ranges.

Why exactly do so many slap on 56mm objective scopes or bigger when they only intend to shoot that rifle on clear open ranges, devoid of shadows and in clear daylight?

Lastly, they stand alongside me whilst being tested, shooting off sticks out to only 100yds and wonder again why i do so well with my rifles with fixed mag scopes or fox rifle with 3-10x44 scope. They stand there with their poorly balanced rifles, with stupid big scopes, heavy moderators and bipods all pulling that muzzle down ..... it often looks like they are trying to stir porrige with that rifle! Could it be that i practice hours with a similar sized 22lr set up or that a greater mag would require more effort selecting the targets and placement? Nah, they'll just have to get the newest shiny scope and rifle!

Excellent posts, IMHO.

:)

Scotsgun wrote:Jenks,

You're missing the point mate. Consider the actual rifle and have a look at that rail. Do you really believe that there is sufficient eye relief and physical space for a scope like that, you stated? Incidentally, no offence intended but i wouldn't ever use a Nightforce - especially on stalking rifle.

I remember being on the German Alpine course whilst the Belgians were experimenting with Nightforces (never bothered to find out which one) which proved far inferior to the other rigs in use. They were particularly poor in low light and night shooting exercises with a restricted field of view out beyond 600-800yds. I believe they swapped back to their issued, original S&B PMs after only a day or so.

What really cracks me up about variables is when you meet so many who haven't a clue how to use. You walk down the line on a target orientated group and so many of the scopes are set to the mag magnification. Then ask how many actually change it......

Similarly, have a peek at the stupid big scopes on so many stalkers rifles. Most stalkers are unlikely to shoot beyond 200yds yet it's now common to see scopes of greater than 16x.....and do they ever change the magnification? Do they bloody ell!

I have a stalking mate who does very well for himself and has all the gear. The local dealers get very excited when Danny walks into their shops - his most recent purchase was one of those new Blazer R8 rifles with a S&B PM II scope. He even paid another couple of hundred quid extra for the dealer to set it up for him. Now Danny knows what i did in the Army and has met a few of my mates so just can't understand why i don't use these huge variable mags. He refuses to believe what we were issued with despite seeing the photos.

So Danny and others like him get down next to me to zero his rifle. They may well be happy with their groups but more often not. I in turn set my scope to 6x and 99% of the time achieve 1/2 inch or less. I've tried to explain that setting the scope to max mag or close to is actually a distraction as it greatly magnifies their movements and makes it harder for them to concentrate on position and breathing. I've even proven it by having some reduce the mag on their scope and achieve better scores.

We then go out to longer ranges and its common for some to assume that i'm 'making do' with my 3-18x44 scope.They slap their rifles down, set to max mag of 32, 42 or even 56x. Do they know how to estimate range with theirs, can they focus just before and after the target to watch the thermals and predict wind, did they concentrate on real optical quality rather than big numbers? Did they hell! Any they wonder why they achieve no better. Danny still thinks i'm witholding some black art that allows me to shoot better than him, especially at longer ranges.

Why exactly do so many slap on 56mm objective scopes or bigger when they only intend to shoot that rifle on clear open ranges, devoid of shadows and in clear daylight?

Lastly, they stand alongside me whilst being tested, shooting off sticks out to only 100yds and wonder again why i do so well with my rifles with fixed mag scopes or fox rifle with 3-10x44 scope. They stand there with their poorly balanced rifles, with stupid big scopes, heavy moderators and bipods all pulling that muzzle down ..... it often looks like they are trying to stir porrige with that rifle! Could it be that i practice hours with a similar sized 22lr set up or that a greater mag would require more effort selecting the targets and placement? Nah, they'll just have to get the newest shiny scope and rifle!

Scotsgun..

You're missing the point mate. Consider the actual rifle and have a look at that rail. Do you really believe that there is sufficient eye relief and physical space for a scope like that, you stated? Incidentally, no offence intended but i wouldn't ever use a Nightforce - especially on stalking rifle.

I wasn’t suggesting that T/Man actually fitted a Nightforce to his Enfield, but I might try fitting it on My No:4 Just for fun you understand. Might even try it on my No:5 carbine.

With regard to using a Nightforce on a stalking rifle, well I did just that for three years both on the Hinds and shooting from a high seat. I found it really good, the light gathering aspect was brilliant and used in conjunction with the illuminated reticle (very rarely used) I was able to stay in my seat long after some of my chums had to pack in.



Incidentally my Nightforce is an NXS 5.5-22x56. It was bought mainly for shooting my Blaser LRS2 and I am very happy with the combination in that role. Some of my results aren’t too shabby either.







Pretty good at shorter ranges as well


My best ever. Three rounds 100x .189’’ .Blaser Offroad with 6.5x55se match barrel. (stalking rifle)













.

I've tried to explain that setting the scope to max mag or close to is actually a distraction as it greatly magnifies their movements and makes it harder for them to concentrate on position and breathing.

Absolutely true. I don’t think I am ever conscious of what magnification it is set on. My normal procedure is to set it on the Max mag then wind it down to the magnification that I judge is the most suitable for the prevailing conditions and that I am comfotable. It is nice to have the choice.

Nah, they'll just have to get the newest shiny scope and rifle!

In an earlier post. I suggested that T/Man might look for a scope in a Gun shop frequented by Stalkers for this reason. Recreational stalkers are a fickle lot and chop and change kit and it is possible to pick up a genuine bargain. Before any professional stalkers jump down my throat... notice I said Recreational stalkers.


Happy days Jenks

I have a 10X fixed on an AI that is used to 1200 yards, my other one has a 16x variable used to 1200 again, neighbour shoots with a 14X at the same distances and we all seem to do OK. Christel shoots with a 24x but mostly has it down round the 16-20x mark again at 1200.

18 months ago I picked up a second hand 42x Nightforce BR, I was quite sceptical about it at the time however it works well for me on my 7mm F Open rifle. I tend to work around the 36-42x mark but it depends on weather conditions. This for me is the maximum magnification I would consider and I do wonder how people get on with the new generation of 80x magnification scopes, personally I like to see the wind flags, the target number and what is going on and will often zoom out to see the markers on the targets either side of me.

How long before we see 100x magnification rifle scopes?

ovenpaa wrote: How long before we see 100x magnification rifle scopes?

Tooters scopes they are.

With MARCH offering a X80 I am sure that we will see a 100x before long, should we need it is another matter.
Up untill now I believe that the light coming out the back of the scope has been so small that it has been not worth doing, but with the current trend for wider scope bodies, 35 and 40mm now almost common, I can see a scope manufacturer taking this further and making a tube wide enough that 100x will be possile.

Personally I will not be wanting to put a spotting scope on my rifle, but I dare say someone will,

DM

Guys,

There is a lot of good, factual information in these posts BUT you can't talk about off-hand stalking and accuracy disciplines like F Class in the same post.

Jenks shows a picture of his Bisley 1000 yard Target - that bull is a whopping 24 inches in diameter! - the V bull, with four shots in, it is 14.4 inches in diameter. Our F Class V bull is FIVE inches in diameter. Check out some results and look at our V bull counts!

With a rifle rested front and rear there is NO movement - you can't have too much power - within reason. I'm more than happy with 36X - it means I can easily 'hold' to one side of the V bull etc.

I currently don't shoot F Class with a zoom scope - but I would - if I could stand the extra weight but with the strict weight-limit I can't, so it's a fixed power Leupold 36XBR weighing one pound. The variable scope is handy - you can wind it down and look at your competitiors' targets - often the best wind-indicator!

I've had a look through a March 10-50 - awesome! I believe the 8-80 March is equally impressive. Richard Wild set a new 1000 yard Australian benchrest record with one - he could see his shot-holes!

But remember, I'm interested in F Class and benchrest - not stalking.

Cheers
Vince

Great stuff guys, really getting me enthused. I have tried a friend's F class rifle and I have a real problem with shooting off a bi-pod and rear bag. It is all to do with having an arthritic neck and not being able to keep my head in the required position for more than a few seconds.

However, strangely as it may seem I can shoot it using a wrist rest in a more or less conventional Target Rifle style so long as the scope is well forward and I can get the required eye relief. This is pretty much the way of Match Rifle shooters.

I am beginning to think that apart from the fun value of scoping my No4 Envoy I might as well look to putting a decent scope on a proper target rifle, Swing, Paramount, RPA, Musgrave etc.,....anybody got one gathering dust that they don't need ????