The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

IainWR wrote: I will not discuss the content of incomplete negotiations on an open forum.

Completely valid points Adam.

Thank you Iain.

Blu wrote:tackb,

We are not plebs we are by and large intelligent people who do a variety of challenging jobs and I'm sure we are capable of operating this system with a little training? Probably less training than your average soldier ?

Read what you have written again there friend and figure out why I think that statement stinks. Not very condescending at all is it? Your average soldier these days given the technology they have grown up with is no less capable of running an ETR than any non "pleb" RCO. In fact they'll probably take to it easier than a lot of the older sportsmen out there.

I think I'm sorry I've offended you ?

The problem is you didn't think. I also wrote that it's usually Senior Ranks or Warrant Officers that run the ETR but it's not always the case, I've seen Lance Corporals and Corporals running an ETR as well, the same average squaddies that is, and doing it professionally and proficiently.

Now un bunch your panties (I really didn't mean to offend you) and maybe comment on the rest of my post ?

Then don't generalize and we'll get along just fine. As to the rest of your post, I agree but somehow I can't see the MoD letting civilians play with their new expensive training aids, I do hope I'm wrong for the sake of all the UK shooting sportsmen and women.

Blu

right , I actually couldn't give a toss whether you've found offence where none was intended or not ! it's your problem not mine.

I don't know you and whether we 'get along just fine' or not means nothing to me.

to sum up :- I made a comment on something that affects shooting here in the uk , YOU found offence where none was intended (your problem) you decided to get all upset about it (your problem) you've decided to pick the bits that suit your petty unwanted argument and continue the argument (again your problem)

if you wish continue along your current line then please take it to PM because there is more important stuff being discussed here than how sensitive you are. I'll be happy to carry on and explain my experiences with employing ex military personnel.

can we get back on track now please?

Iain

6Charlie range at Wathgill Camp, Catterick ranges, is an ETR range with SUIS ASCOR targetry as per this description.

"1701.
General

The Electric Target Range (ETR) has a main firing point and three rows of electrically operated targets at 100, 200 and 300 m from the main firing point.
Three further firing points are provided at 100 m intervals behind the main firing point (400, 500 and 600 m). "

It is being upgraded to the new system.

OK gentlemen you had your say at each other let us leave it there, any more posts in the personal vein and they will be removed.

dromia wrote:As you confirm the end of shooting appears to be nigh with the bringing in of this new targetry, shame it is only with hindsight that we have found this out. Some foresight from the NRA would have been very helpful.

I'll probably retire in 14 years. I'll have a couple of nice pensions that I'll have paid an awful lot of money into. Adam has said something that I have said previously and do believe. That is, that I will not be spending my money or time shooting. We will be extinct in that regards....

dromia wrote:OK gentlemen you had your say at each other let us leave it there, any more posts in the personal vein and they will be removed.

understood and I apologise for my part in it.

A problem with the use and administration of MoD land ranges for Civilian Clubs is that it is of no benefit to the MoD. Given the current economic climate and the MoDs drive for efficiency, the number of gapped Military and MoD Civil Servant Posts there is a continuing requirement to find areas to save time, effort and money. If a Cost Benefit Analysis was done on what is involved in administering and providing Civilian Club access to MoD Land Ranges the outcome would most likely be that there are no benefits to the MoD and the cost is therefore not justified; result would be no access.

Current access has been negotiated by the NRA and other NGBs but it is based on ‘Good Will’ and probably supported in part by the Service Shooting Associations (RN, Army and RAF) and the loyalties to those associations from current and former service personnel of all ranks. Lots of work was done by the NGB to mirror the Military Safe System of Training as they were required to demonstrate that civilians were competent to use firearms on MoD Land Ranges, all a result of the putting things in place to counter the ‘Compensation Culture’ when something goes wrong. That battle was won and although we now all require SSC to shoot on MoD Land Ranges the access was maintained, provided the rules in RSPL 13/02. Quite frankly Civilian Clubs are lucky they have any access and the more fuss and bother that is caused the more likely the DIO are to pull the plug completely.

You will just have to just wait this one out and see what happens.

Karen with the greatest respect by asking Ian for an honest answer I was not insinuating he was a liar.
Please try and see this from our perspective, you last posted regarding this on the 1st and its now the 5th so it has taken 5 days for Ian and yourself to still be unaware that Andrew Mercer was party to a meeting regarding this over 12 months ago.
Given the nature of the sport we are discussing the NRA has to be proactive rather than reactive to these situations and your really do need to present a unified front in order to retain the faith of your affiliated clubs.
This is about local clubs getting local ranges 'unstuck' so that they can enjoy shooting like the rest of the UK seems to be doing. If civilians are to be precluded from using the new targetry then it will have serious implications for shooting across the country and in order to foster new shooters local clubs have to exist, flourish and increase in numbers.
Removing access to ranges at any level is exactly the opposite of what should be happening and should be vehemently opposed by the NGB.

surely as our taxes pay for the MOD we have some right to use a facility for legal legitimate sport ?

historically we as shooters have had a good relationship with the military so why the change off heart ?