The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Chapuis wrote:

Sim G wrote: You have been misinformed there Sim G as they are a varmint bullet and super "explosive" originaly intended for ground squirrels or so I understand.
Perhaps because of their extensive expansion someone though they should be regarded as frangible? They are however definitely section 5 not section 1.

As Grant has stated, as per 4.3 of the HO Guidance, Frangible bullets are specifically exempted. Frangible is defined as;

"A material is said to be frangible if through deformation it tends to break up into fragments, rather than deforming elastically and retaining its cohesion as a single object."

I had the conversation with an RFD friend a couple of years ago. He believes the bullets are s1 as per guidance and definition and sells them as such.

Chapuis wrote:

Sim G wrote:No, not used them, but have heard that these are not regarded as "s5 expanding" but s1/unrestricted as they do not "expand" predictably as they tend to disintegrate....

You have been misinformed there Sim G as they are a varmint bullet and super "explosive" originaly intended for ground squirrels or so I understand.
Perhaps because of their extensive expansion someone though they should be regarded as frangible? They are however definitely section 5 not section 1.

NOPE
&
Nope

The original design parameter = "ground squirrels"? Nope!
Originally designed for the US Army so they could shoot steel plates with zero chances of ricochet to nearby personnel...

Can someone explain how compressed dust can "expand" in a controlled manner, like say a solid TSX bullet does?

"definitely section 5" = have you got a link for that or evidence of a ruling from the Home Office?

No I haven't got evidence or a definitive answer from the home office but if you look at the Barnes website they mention ground squirrels. Also if you have a look at the Dauntsey Guns website for example you will see that they regard them as expanding and section 5, and hence you are unable to purchase them through the post.

They wouldn't be the first dealer to be unaware of specifics in the Guidance.

It's easy to see how someone could regard them as "expanding" due to now marketing. But in much the same way that expanding ammo in a tubular magazine is s1 there are anomalies in firearms law in the UK!!

Yes the usual confusion over what is section 5 and what is not plus of course the exceptions in the law. Hopefully there will be an end to all that soon but I'm not holding my breath.

Hope to find out tomorrow, I've loaded some test loads for the hornet as an alternative to 35 gr v-max which have served me well but the last batch aren't expanding so well, out first thing for some load testing and then on the rabbits and foxes over the next month if the loads prove any good

As an update the 50 grain VG's group reasonably well at around 1" at 100 yards however they packaging actually states 1:10 twist or better. The remainder will be retired to a shelf in the Armoury until a suitable rifle is found.