The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

IainWR wrote:A safety section is on list of desirables, there is a lot of thought going into the website at the moment, action will follow, not sure when.

Iain

Great stuff mate, I still need to get my account sorted.

Currently I can book targets, but try as I might I cannot log in and record my shooting. I am not desperate about that as I do enough recorded by my club, and have all my reloading records, spent primers (god knows why) and record sheets to prove my activity, but it needs sorting.

Great to see the markers shoot as well, I would love to help but will be working and have just done my back...again.....

Arrrrgggghhhhh

The shooters record is still set that it can only be completed when actually at Bisley. Remote access to that is another thing on the list of desirables - obviously it will need some sort of authorisation code to stop people just making stuff up and entering it. The IT guys are a bit busy at the thinking stage!

I wouldn't like to take the conclusion of that report to court.....

wtfwtf

Incident happened in July 2013 and the report is out now!

Mezzer

Um read the report as it includes a timeline of how and why it took so long.

IainWR wrote:The shooters record is still set that it can only be completed when actually at Bisley. Remote access to that is another thing on the list of desirables - obviously it will need some sort of authorisation code to stop people just making stuff up and entering it. The IT guys are a bit busy at the thinking stage!

I know I, its the bit I cannot access. I think I have 2 different email accounts registered and it gets confused.

karen wrote:Um read the report as it includes a timeline of how and why it took so long.

These things often take an age, they always have, forensic work cannot be rushed, particularly if you want second opinions.

I must admit I don't like the word "Likely" cause, but if you cannot reach "A" cause, its the next best thing.

Anyhoo...onward and upwards.

The bottom line as far as I am concerned is that safety only works if people can use its lessons.

Be smart, learn from others mistakes so you don't need to make them and ideally no one gets hurt.

Good stuff, but a safety section is so important, up front, in yer face, and regularly refreshed with new or hot topics and reminders.

At work we have a bulletin that comes about in force, really important stuff is bordered in red.

"If its bordered in red, it has to be read", is the slogan....must work as I remembered it...never read it though

karen wrote:Um read the report as it includes a timeline of how and why it took so long.

Let's put this in perspective shall we ...?

The report into the 1988 Piper Alpha incident took 16 months from start to finish. Highly complex and technically challenging with more expert testimony than you could shake a stick at. 2 x volumes of over 1000 pages accompanied by drawing, line diagrams and P&I drawings. Take a look at the timeline for this report if you want to see how it should be done.

Coming from an industry where incident investigation and the implementation of lessons learned is critical, I repeat my earlier dismay that it takes a year to produce a semi-detailed report into a simple event such as the Kingsbury incident.

NRA / MoD really ought to consider hiring an impartial, specialised incident team who would conduct any such investigations into firearms incidents as required. There are plenty of highly-skilled and experienced personnel out there who are perfectly capable of establishing the immediate / root causes of these events. Just give them a mandate, a decent budget and a time-frame for when you want the report finalised and they will do the rest. It really is as simple as that.

NRA and MoD really need to leave things like this to people who actually know what they are doing. Their only input (other than answering pertinent questions from the SME) should be to act on the incident report findings. Only then will we see reports completed in a timely manner.

Let's not lose sight of why we conduct these investigations. It's NOT to point the finger at anyone but only (repeat) only to ensure we can learn from the incident circumstances and prevent a recurrence. Therefore, time is crucial! Other people may be out there and seperated from a similar incident by as little as a single trigger pull, so let's investigate efficiently and get the information out quickly. Morally, we have a duty to do that if nothing else.

Typical reporting regime for my industry is as follows:-

Flash report within 2 hours
Initial report within 24 hours
Full report within 30 days (completed with all inspection data)

Mezzer (sent from the NW England station)

I have to concur, if handloading safety is seen as a "issue" with the MoD then putting in place a responsible and professional response to any such events will be a big step in helping the argument with the MoD as well as just being good practice.

Also a more formal, proactive way of sharing such findings and the learning thereof with club secretaries and RCO's should be instigated rather than just posting it on a difficult to use web site.

dromia wrote:difficult to use web site.

Whats difficult about noticing a link in the centre of the home page that is under the heading "Recent NRA News"?

A system where a 'safety' alert needs to be passed quickly prior to full formal investigation already exists as per the recent issue with a Rangemaster .50cal.

Could be better though and remember not everyone is an NRA member nor do they all use the internet.