Ammunition prices.....

[Rburro2]

Can you not use handloads for the methuan then?

[Steve E]

Can you not use handloads for the methuan then?

The NRA does not issue ammunition for the Civilian Service Rifle events, you provide your own.

[Steve E]

On that basis, using Lapua brass and assuming its cost is amortised over 10 loadings plus Viht N140, the components cost alone of a Sierra #2155 handload is the wrong side of 60P. Yes, it can be reduced a bit by using TR140 but not by a huge amount. F/TR league shooters' handloads cost ~90P each now in components alone.

I'd say it can be reduced quite a bit. Mine are still the right side of 40p.

..

Can't quite do 40p but I and the Palma Squad are loading for less than 50p a round using once fired RWS brass, TR140 powder, Sierra 2156s and CCI primers. Our loads hold the ICFRA V bull (10 inches) at 1000yds - they have to.

[rox]

I'd say it can be reduced quite a bit. Mine are still the right side of 40p.
..

Can't quite do 40p but I and the Palma Squad are loading for less than 50p a round using once fired RWS brass, TR140 powder, Sierra 2156s and CCI primers. Our loads hold the ICFRA V bull (10 inches) at 1000yds - they have to.

How many times do you expect to use the brass? Thats sounds slightly high. My 2156 cost is 45p based on a 10p once-fired case being used 10 times.

..

[John MH]

Can you not use handloads for the methuan then?

Wher did you get that idea from?

[Steve E]

I have retired my brass after 5 firings for the Palma Trials although there was nothing wrong with the cases as they are only neck sized. I am using a new batch of RWS cases this year at 5p a case.
Our biggest cost is the bullet, as the supply of 2156s has been a bit erratic and the prices have been from £250-320 per 1000 and no one was prepared to do a discount for bulk. We have been shooting in excess of 10,000 rounds a week end in the trials in 2013, this year we will be down to 6000 a week end as the squad is reduced.

[M99]

if it was .50 bmg id be happy with that

If thats was for .50bmg, we would buy it all!!

Thankfully we have been sponsored by Extreme performance(http://www.epgroupuk.com) for the Worlds this year, they have generously donated the componets needed to enable us to compete, I can assure you, that even the brass would cost more than per bang for our 50s.

Mime

[John MH]

"10,000 rounds a week end"

Who is paying for that and how many shooters are on the team?

[Laurie]

I'd agree with those costs Steve, but that's on the basis of nearly free once-fired brass supplied on the back of the NRA contract and other users. Neither RUAG nor the NRA have that luxury in their supply of ammunition to UK shooters! I'd assume too that due to the purchase levels you'll have, you get a better deal on SMKs than the average Joe who calls into his local gunshop and buys a couple of hundred.

I chose new Lapua as the basis for my costings as it's what most precision orientated handloaders choose if they haven't got access to once-fired RWS brass, they're similar quality and have very similar weights, capacities and dimensions in key areas such as case-neck thickness and are MUCH cheaper than equivalent new-buy quality brass. (Check on what RUAG's RRPs are some time for Norma and RWS cases, the former at least is equivalent to the NRA price for a complete loaded ready to fire .308 Win RWS cartridge!) I would reckon on more firings from a Lapua 308 case than its RWS equivalent though, albeit when I use 10 loadings for costing purposes, that doesn't take into account that LR precision will likely deteriorate well before the 10th firing unless the user is able to anneal the brass, or pays somebody else to do it for him or her.

I'd love too for somebody to provide 1,000 yard 1-MOA precision capable 308 Win ammo cheaply, but I really don't see how we can get out of the old vicious circle of having to choose between relatively cheap milspec machinegun fodder and £1 per bang for high-grade match ammo.

Just to put things into context, I had a look at Wilson & Wilson's ad in GunMart to see what sporting ammo costs retail these days from a pretty reasonably priced gunshop. Run of the mill .243 and similar is getting on for £120 per 100, but Federal Gold Medal Match .308 Win with the good old 168gn Sierra MK is listed at £191.00 per 100. I'm pretty sure Lapua and Norma retail prices will be similar and even with bulk purchases direct from the manufacturer, they're going to be pricey! HPS brings it down a lot to a bit over £900 / 1,000 i/c a 5P per round deposit on the brass, but still showing it's difficult not to say impossible for somebody to provide a suitable ammunition grade at the £70-80 / 100 mark and make a living out of it.

[Steve E]

"10,000 rounds a week end"

Who is paying for that and how many shooters are on the team?

The shooters are paying for that themselves, there is no preferential treatment from the NRA. Last year the Squad was 140+ with approx, 100 squad members at each weekend shooting 51 rounds each per day.
This year the squad is reduced to approx 60 members, still shooting 51 rounds a day. Each squad member has to load their own ammunition to a given specification in a specific Bisley Clubhouse that has a dedicated loading room. It is a logistical nightmare but is doable. Just for the next two training sessions 17160 rounds of ammunition have to be loaded and that is just for the Palma squad. The Under 25s need about half that amount and that all have to load it themselves to keep the cost down. If we were using RUAG, i suspect that both the Palma and the Under 25s would have a lot less people looking to represent GB at the highest level. I know that i would not be able to afford it.