Changes in the law relating to firearms and shotguns

[Christel]

Alpha 1,

Just a healthy debate so far.
It is when they get their handbags out you should start to worry
Not a pretty sight then... :lol:

[ovenpaa]

Rob, I will get back to you on this!

[Alpha1]

Its all good fun. :lol:

[Blackstuff]

Isn't the reason a 10yr old (or anyone other than the land owner) needs an SGC to shoot pests/game something to do with the wording of the 2002 Guidance in the shotgun section, and the use of the word 'occupier'? :?: Sorry i'm at work and i've not had the time to look through the guidance for the exact wording

FYI There was a 2010 firearms amendment act that has created a new offence for anyone allowing anyone under 18 access to their air rifle/pistol. Something along the lines of 'must be reasonably secured from coming into possession by minors". Whether or not it will be strictly enforced is of course another matter . . . :roll:

[Robin128]

Here is a summary of the law on airguns...

http://www.basc.org.uk/en/utilities/doc ... 5E3AFF5511

The Police don't have the resources to apply it.

There are 500,000 airguns in Scotland...guess which ones will not get registered?

Rob

[ovenpaa]

Rob:

So you are for 10 year olds having a certificate...no more regulation required?

My view is I cannot see why any 10 year old would need a certificate, we have all agreed they would be under strict supervision, or look at a different way would you allow a child out on their own with a firearm when the law continues to presume that children under fourteen do not know the difference between right and wrong unless proven in court?

So where is the weakness in the current law on airguns? It just needs applying...there is a stack of law the Police can use to lock up abusers. So the law abiding get stuffed with more regulation...but no effect on their behaviour. And the scroats just carry on using airguns as before and not apply for FAC...tell me ovenpaa...how will that change scroats behaviour? Does all this firearms law stop all the illegal use of handguns etc...sorry...NO.

This is a safety and awareness thing, licence new users and give them a half days training at the same time, new motorcyclists need to pass a basic test before being allowed on the road, new shooting club members are required to go through a probationary period so why not airgun users? No it will not stop the scroates directly but peer pressure may just rub off on a few and more to the point the more recent fatalities have been by 'law abiding citizens' for that read kids from normal families that pulled the trigger albeit inadvertently.

You cannot shoot on MOD range without a valid competency cert.

Yes - An SCC Shooters Certificate of Competence

[Robin128]

Ovenpaa,

On the 10 year old cert aspect, see Ch7, 2002 Guidance to the Police...extracts...

"A person under fourteen may not be granted a firearm certificate in any circumstances. However, there may be some occasions where a parent is granted such a certificate, or an existing certificate is varied, in respect of a child under fourteen, for example where the child will be participating in competitive target shooting. In these instances, the child would be expected to provide the primary “good reason” for the possession of the firearm. Both the parent and the child would be subject to the necessary background checks. Under section 22(3) of the 1968 Act it is an offence for any person under the age of fifteen to have an assembled shot gun with them unless:
a) they are either under the supervision of a person aged twenty-one or over; or
b) the gun is so covered with a securely fastened gun cover that it cannot be fired.
Note: the Act does not require the supervisor to be a certificate holder, although this is
clearly preferable.
The Act does not prohibit a person under fifteen from having a shot gun certificate. Nor does it exempt them from the need to have a shot gun certificate in order to have an assembled shot gun in their possession in the circumstances described above. It is for the chief officer of police to decide whether a shot gun certificate should be granted to a person under fifteen “without danger to the public safety or to the peace”, just as is the case if the applicant was over 15. Each case should always be assessed on its own merits. It is usual in such cases that the child’s parents, guardian or other responsible adult will supervise the young person and take responsibility for the gun when not in use."

I believe it is all to do with whether the child is on a Home Office approved range or not.

On airguns...

"A person found trespassing with a low-powered air weapon, for example, might still be charged with “armed” trespass. It would also still be an offence for a person prohibited by the
terms of section 21 of the 1968 Act to be in possession of an air gun or ammunition for it.
Section 22(5) of the 1968 Act makes it an offence for any person under the age of seventeen to have an air weapon with them in any public place except:
a) as a member of an approved club while engaged as such in or in connection with
target shooting (Section 23(2)(a) of the 1968 Act); or
b) while at a shooting gallery where only air weapons or miniature rifles not exceeding .23 inch calibre are used (section 23(b) of the 1968 Act); or
c) where the air gun or an air rifle (but not an air pistol) is so covered with a securely fastened gun cover so that it cannot be fired;
It is an offence for a person under the age of seventeen to be in possession of an air pistol in any public place except as at (a) and (b) above."

With 500,000 airguns in Scotland alone, what is the point of just licensing new ones? That would create a black market for them overnight...just like s5 type weapons today. I honestly can't see peer pressure having any material effect on scroates...not like Police enforcement of the existing law. Banning air weapons again would only affect law abiding shooters, scroates wouldn't care less or comply IMHO.

I'm still of the opinion that enforcement of the current law is the only way forward...which of course we cannot afford...apparently.

HTH

Rob

[ovenpaa]

On the 10 year old cert aspect, see Ch7, 2002 Guidance to the Police...extracts...

"A person under fourteen may not be granted a firearm certificate in any circumstances. However, there may be some occasions where a parent is granted such a certificate, or an existing certificate...........

<snip>

...........I'm still of the opinion that enforcement of the current law is the only way forward...which of course we cannot afford...apparently.

One word Rob.

Safety.

[Robin128]

Don't understand? What point are you trying to make?

Rob

[ovenpaa]

What I am saying is get the Airguns of new users (initially) licensed and train them for half a day, surely you must agree gun safety is of the highest importance for all shooters?

So now we have people young and old that are new to the sport (Who will possible will move on towards SGC's and/or FAC's at a later date) trained in the basics of safety, never point a loaded airgun at anyone, treat all airguns as loaded, where you can and cannot shoot, safety zones and backdrops etc. Surely that is a good thing? Times change, just because we didn’t need to do it does not mean it was right.

Back to the 10 years olds. Why do they need SGCs? Is this so Dad can say look at little Billy 10 years old and holds an SGC? Or is there a more valid reason.