"Lee stuff is cr@p"..... WRONG! Time for a rant !

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All handloading data posted on Full-Bore UK from 23/2/2021 must reference the published pressure tested data it was sourced from, posts without such verification will be removed.
Any existing data without such a reference should be treated as suspect and not used.

Use reloading information posted here at your own risk. This forum (http://www.full-bore.co.uk) is not responsible for any property damage or personal injury as a consequence of using reloading data posted here, the information is individual members findings and observations only. Always verify the load data and be absolutely sure your firearm can handle the load, especially older ones. If in doubt start low and work your way up.
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Sim G
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"Lee stuff is cr@p"..... WRONG! Time for a rant !

#1 Post by Sim G »

Time and again, those shooters asking advice on forums about starting reloading, the conversation revolves around the kit required. Invariably, there will be the "sage" advice along the lines of, "Stay away from Lee, it's crap!" Every now and again, someone will chip in, almost embarrasingly, in support of Lee kit.

So, to those that are looking to venture into hand loading, I say, read on. Instead of being daunted with spending a 100 quid just on dies or 120 pounds on a press. You can put it all together for the same price as a "quality" single stage press and you will be able to make ammo that a lot of the "leading brands" would be hard pressed to beat.

And I'm not the only one that thinks so! pe4king bangs V bulls at 1000 yards all day long, with ammo loaded with Lee kit.....

Anyway..... I started reloading 20 odd years ago. Then, I was shooting pistol. A lot of pistol. I actually learned to reload on a Dillon 550 progressive using RCBS dies. No problems on the whole. So, there I was by chance in a gunshop in Florida. Got talking to the owner as I was buying what I could, dies and stuff. I was specifically looking for .38-55 dies. Owner offered me Lee and I scoffed because of what I had previously heard. The owner then imparted that I would be hard pressed to buy "better". He explained that Lee offered a guaranteed accuracy and that their dies would load more accurate that any others. Likewise, they state that their dies have the best internal finish in the industry. He then said,

"Look, this America. You can sue anyone for anything. I could probably sue you because you walked into my shop, a Limey and during the 1812 war you lot burned down the White House. I'd win. Now when Lee made these claims, the industry took him at his word. They tested, measured and everything else. This industry is worth billions of dollars a year. Lee didn't get sued. His claims were correct and all the others found out his guarantee was good....."

So, I bought those dies and have added plenty of Lee kit over the years. I also believe Lee's guarantee and I've seen nor used anything else to tell me otherwise....

So here's the thing, can you make ammo on the "budget" Lee kit that won't leave you disadvantaged? Can Lee kit give you the advantage? And if starting off, do you have to break the bank to see if handloading is for you?

Here we go. Using a Lee handpress and a Lee FL resizing die and Lee lubricant. Now the handpress is a great piece of kit. I've loaded .300 Win Mag using one of these and it is more powerful than some bench mounted presses. And they are cheap enough to have a couple, one for each die. The big advantage is that there is a lot more "feel". Loading thin walled cases such as .44-40, they don't get crushed like they do in a bench press....

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Then, give the primer pocket a quick clean. Lee's tool for this job has large primer sized cleaner on one size, small on the other. This one has been used thousands of times and shows very little signs of wear.

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Next is to check the case for length and trim it if necessary. The Lee case length gauge is a doddle. If needed, a couple of turns trues and trims that case mouth. Now you can get a cutter with a small wooden ball on it for ease and comfort. And for under a fiver! Length gauges and shell holder...... three quid!

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Chamfer inside of the case mouth, and deburr the outside of the neck. Quick and easy with a Lee tool that literally costs a couple of quid. Again, this one has been used thousands of times and no doubt will last a life time....

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Now to priming the case. Even Lee haters will concede that this is an absolutely brilliant piece of kit! I suppose the only down side is that it uses different shell holders to those supplied with the dies. But, for a tenner, you can get a full set of AutoPrime shell holders that will cater for hundreds of cartridges.

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And just to show that the primer is seated perfectly, with no "indentations" on the primer that can happen with so many other systems.

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A critical operation now, measuring powder. How about the Lee dippers? Small scoops of differing sizes, with a correpsonding chart for how much of particular powders will fill each specific scoop. Choose the scoop close to your desired charge, scoop it and dump it in the scale. Then, using a trickler, bring the charge up to what you want. Unfortunately, Lee don't make a trickler, but this bog standard RCBS one will do. All weighed with Lee scales. The scales and the dippers are around 35 quid for both. Next to this sits an RCBS Chargemaster Combo that cost 10 times as much. Lee kit is just as accurate! And let's not forget that Lee funnel for two pounds. Fits cases from .22 to .45. Could there be a better one....?

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Now seat the bullet. Again, Lee bullet seater in a Lee hand press. Once you get the COL you want by adjusting the knob at the top it stays there... And that's it. One quality round of ammunition made!

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I timed myself. Just over six minutes produced five rounds.

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Now this is one of the really good bits. The pic below shows all the Lee stuff you need to make top notch ammo. You can put it together for £120. As said, that's the cost of some single stage presses or a set of dies that some would advocate. So if you are only loading for a couple of calibers all of this can be kept in no larger than a shoe box! No space put aside for beches and the likes. And, you can use it anywhere, even on the range! I've prepped cases whilst sitting at the table with the lad whilst he did home work. Whilst the wife has been watching the TV, I've primed cases whilst sitting with her and made complete ammunition whilst she's cooked a Sunday roast........ no more being accused of disappearing into the garage for hours on end.

The only things not mentioned that you would need are, a set of calipers for overall length, but then every bloke should have some of these in the garage. And a manual. Again, I'd say Lee. Loads of great advive and instructions on loading and all of the loads are not bullet or powder manufacturer specific!

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OK then, so I've made some shiny ammunition, quickly, on "cheap" kit, but does it perform? Well below is a pic of a five round group, shot at 100m (110 yards) today. The weather was cold at seven degrees, overcast with a slight breeze, right to left. The group measures just under 0.4 inches and was witnessed by pe4king. Would it have been better with a 100 pound set of dies, a 150 pound press or a 350 pound powder dispenser. No. Even though other stuff is clearly more expensive, it's certainly not better. You may prefer other dies and equipment because they feel or look nicer. So be it, that's your choice. But don't think that other kit is better. The only way this group would have improved would have been had it been shot through a better rifle, not an off the shelf gun........

"Lee stuff is crap....." Yeah, right......!!!!

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In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
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Alpha1
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Re: "Lee stuff is cr@p"..... WRONG! Time for a rant !

#2 Post by Alpha1 »

Well you are welcome to it my freind but I would not touch most of Lee stuff with a barge pole.
I have tried it over the years and very quickly got rid of it and replaced it with what I regard as better quality kit.
My re loading is now a lot more fun and a damn site easier.
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Sim G
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Re: "Lee stuff is cr@p"..... WRONG! Time for a rant !

#3 Post by Sim G »

Easier? What on earth were you doing that made Lee kit difficult?
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
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Re: "Lee stuff is cr@p"..... WRONG! Time for a rant !

#4 Post by Sandgroper »

Sim,
I agree 100%. I've borrowed dies from other shooters who scoffed at me using lee dies but I could see no discernible difference (in ease of use or performance) that justified the price difference between lee and other dies.

I'm happy with Lee! :goodjob:
“The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.”

Lieutenant General David Morrison

I plink, therefore I shoot.
Tower75

Re: "Lee stuff is cr@p"..... WRONG! Time for a rant !

#5 Post by Tower75 »

Agreed. I've never understood the whole "Lee is crap" deal.

Granted, I'm brand new to reloading, but all of my stuff is Lee, and it all works, and I mean it "works". Really, really well.

I even "almost kinda" broke my Lee .303 FL die - I ripped the decapping pin out with a stuck case. The design of the Lee die just allowed me to screw it back in. No harm. Other businesses' dies would have been de-commissioned if I did that.
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Re: "Lee stuff is cr@p"..... WRONG! Time for a rant !

#6 Post by ovenpaa »

I keep meaning to get one of the Lee hand presses for the range, it would be handy for fine tuning OAL's.

I have a die cast Lee press that was given to me, it has a Lee .308 seater in it permanently setup to build 147 grain NATO type bullets to 2.800" and it gives stunning repeatability.
/d

Du lytter aldrig til de ord jeg siger. Du ser mig kun for det tøj jeg har paa ...

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Sim G
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Re: "Lee stuff is cr@p"..... WRONG! Time for a rant !

#7 Post by Sim G »

Tower.75 wrote:Agreed. I've never understood the whole "Lee is crap" deal.

Granted, I'm brand new to reloading, but all of my stuff is Lee, and it all works, and I mean it "works". Really, really well.

I even "almost kinda" broke my Lee .303 FL die - I ripped the decapping pin out with a stuck case. The design of the Lee die just allowed me to screw it back in. No harm. Other businesses' dies would have been de-commissioned if I did that.

One of the design features of the Lee FL resizing die is the stuck case remover! Get a case stuck, remove the decapping pin locking nut, then with a piece of wood or the like, and a hammer, drive the stuck case out. Take the case off the stem, put it back in, continue sizing!

I once had some Berdan primed cases mixed in with my .308. Ran them through the sizing die. No broken pin, they just punched through the primer pocket. Same can't be said with "superior" dies......
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
Steve

Re: "Lee stuff is cr@p"..... WRONG! Time for a rant !

#8 Post by Steve »

I use Lee stuff and it all works flawlessly. :good:

What makes me chuckle when i read on the net are people who critise without ever having tried it.Gun snob springs to mind or should i substitute the s for a k... :lol:
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Re: "Lee stuff is cr@p"..... WRONG! Time for a rant !

#9 Post by Mike357 »

+1 from me on the Lee stuff for 44mag & 303. Wont be changing these except if more 44mag needs to be churned out and then I might just set the turret press up for progressive loading of 44 mag.

The beam scales, mmmmmm haven't used them but I must admit I prefer my more substantial Reddings. Everything is great.

When it fails or is shown to not do as it should, then it becomes pants in my book.

Good post Sim :goodjob:
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scoobydoo

Re: "Lee stuff is cr@p"..... WRONG! Time for a rant !

#10 Post by scoobydoo »

+1 for Lee.

I use the Perfect Powder Measure for loading .223 cases and checked against an expensive (non-Lee!) beam balance it is accurate and consistent.

I use the Lee Collet and Full Length dies on my .223 cases too and never had any problems, while an expensive RCBS Full Length die overstretched the case mouth so much that they split after just two firings.
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