Is the USA losing it, bit by bit?

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Dangermouse

Is the USA losing it, bit by bit?

#1 Post by Dangermouse »

When we had a member from the USA who went by the name of Blu, I had a number of conversations with him about the USA losing their firearms. He, as most Americans do, always quoted the 2nd amendment and was solid in his view that anyone who tried it would be out of office fast.
Well here we have another incidence of the Americans slowly losing what they have - and it has been done. I worry that some day that they will wake up and find that all they have of the 2nd amendment is what is written in the history books.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... pen-carry/
Dark Day for 2nd Amendment Rights
California Governor Jerry Brown acted on several firearms-related bills on Sunday, October 9th. Gov. Brown waited until literally the last hour on Sunday to act on firearms-related legislation sent to his desk this session. Several anti-gun and anti-industry bills were signed into law, including long-gun registration. “Sadly, the steady erosion of the Second Amendment in California continues,” said Lawrence G. Keane, NSSF senior vice president and general counsel. “Gov. Brown has now proven that he no more respects freedom and the individual right protected by the Second Amendment than his predecessor. These bills will increase costs for the taxpayer and the state’s retailers, most of whom are small mom-and-pop businesses. It will cost the state jobs and tax revenue, all the while doing absolutely nothing to reduce crime.” Below are summaries of the gun-related bills signed into law by Gov. Brown:

AB 809 (Feuer, Democrat, West Hollywood): Long-gun registration: SIGNED INTO LAW. In a nutshell, AB 809 mandates long-gun registration, starting January 1st, 2014. The bill does this, essentially, by treating long guns the same as handguns. The bill requires FFLs to make long gun sales information available to the California Dept. of Justice, and imposes new requirements on persons bringing long guns into the state. AB 809 also burdens “peace officers” with responsibilities for the compilation and retention of long-gun information.

SB 819 (Leno, Democrat, San Francisco): SIGNED INTO LAW. This bill allows the California Department of Justice (DOJ) to use Dealer Record of Sales (DROS) funds for purposes unrelated to administration of background checks. There is currently a lawsuit pending that challenges the past misuse/misappropriation of these funds by the DOJ. The DROS fee now becomes a sanctioned revenue stream for the DOJ.

AB 144 (Portantino, Democrat, La Canada): SIGNED INTO LAW. This bill bans open carry in the state. This revokes a long-standing right of California citizens that has been in effect for more than a century. The bill would make it a misdemeanor to openly carry an unloaded handgun on the person or in a motor vehicle in public areas and would make it a misdemeanor to openly carry an exposed handgun in a public place or public street. Existing laws otherwise ban open carry of loaded handguns and ban concealed carry without a permit — something virtually impossible to obtain in many California Counties.

SB 610 (Wright, Democrat, So. Central Los Angeles): SIGNED INTO LAW. This bill, which modifies the state’s concealed-carry application process, may actually benefit CCW applicants in a modest fashion. First, the bill provides that no concealed carry applicant would be required to obtain liability insurance as a condition of the license. This bill also provides that the applicant would not be required to pay for training courses prior to a determination of good cause being made.
Mr_Logic

Re: Is the USA losing it, bit by bit?

#2 Post by Mr_Logic »

But that's California. Went I visited it, it was the one bit of the USA I hated. I have driven coast-to-coast so I've seen enough to comment! I think life is pretty normal in normal states!
Tower75

Re: Is the USA losing it, bit by bit?

#3 Post by Tower75 »

Some of he laws in Cali make our laws look liberal. At least we're not restricted to magazine size.
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Sim G
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Re: Is the USA losing it, bit by bit?

#4 Post by Sim G »

I've had many a conversation with American gun owners who couldn't "see beyond" the 2nd Ammendment. They honestly believed that their gun rights are as safe as anything. Even when telling them that was exactly what a lot of Brits thought as well, until eventually in 1953, the right to bear arms was finally eradicated after years of "piecemeal legislation", taking away an ancient right, enshrined in common and constitutional law. The basis for their own 2nd ammendment.
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

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Sandgroper
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Re: Is the USA losing it, bit by bit?

#5 Post by Sandgroper »

I suppose it depends of how the NRA responds to it and if they decide to take it to court? California by all accounts is the the most hardline of the anti-gun states.

California's arguement would be the 2nd ammendment isn't being infringed as they are not banning firearms.

On the otherhand, the banning of "open carry" could be seen as an infringement of the 2nd.

When Canada introduced registration (2006?) for "non-restricted" firearms the level of compliance to register has been extremely low. So much so, that the compliance incentives have been further extended. http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/ci-mi-eng.htm

Owners in California may well adopt the the same attitude, depending if the law is supposed to be retrospective or just for newly purchased long arms. If it's just for new purchases as it seems to imply, I'm guessing there'll be a lot of gun trade between now and Jan 2014!
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Re: Is the USA losing it, bit by bit?

#6 Post by Chuck »

After a shoot up in a salon that left some dead folks lying around, Commiefornia banned the open carry of UNLOADED weapons ...DOH! The salon shooting demonstrated WHY carry is a necessity!

Here in Arizona I walked out of a restaurant after I had ordered a meal when I noticed a NO GUNS sign (Not an OFFICIAL ATF sign). The manager asked why I chose to cancel my order and I pointed to the sign and said I did not want to dine in a target rich environment....How many criminals did he think would obey his sign?

Picture the owners jaw dropping to floor level and a few diners who easily heard my comments suddenly starting to murmer in agreement.

I walked a 100 yards and ate in a place where some biker guys were eating, all sporting open carry sidearms..saved a few $$$ too.

Obama is busy running guns to the Mexican drug cartels under the flawed and fatal "Operation Fast and Furious"! Some (many) hope he and his commie cronies will be impeached for this.
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Blackstuff
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Re: Is the USA losing it, bit by bit?

#7 Post by Blackstuff »

Chuck wrote:After a shoot up in a salon that left some dead folks lying around, Commiefornia banned the open carry of UNLOADED weapons ...DOH! The salon shooting demonstrated WHY carry is a necessity!

Here in Arizona I walked out of a restaurant after I had ordered a meal when I noticed a NO GUNS sign (Not an OFFICIAL ATF sign). The manager asked why I chose to cancel my order and I pointed to the sign and said I did not want to dine in a target rich environment....How many criminals did he think would obey his sign?

Picture the owners jaw dropping to floor level and a few diners who easily heard my comments suddenly starting to murmer in agreement.

I walked a 100 yards and ate in a place where some biker guys were eating, all sporting open carry sidearms..saved a few $$$ too.

Obama is busy running guns to the Mexican drug cartels under the flawed and fatal "Operation Fast and Furious"! Some (many) hope he and his commie cronies will be impeached for this.
Although i don't personally agree with open carry i respect the right for those that do :good:

Would've loved to see the managers face when you said that to him :clap: Out of interest, does it HAVE to be an official ATF sign for it to be legally binding, or can anyone bodge something up and you have to comply?
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Re: Is the USA losing it, bit by bit?

#8 Post by bobbob »

How do you stop things like this happening though? http://www.khou.com/news/HPD-Woman-shot ... 43634.html
The guy was obviously careless.

The woman is actually a friend of my cousin and is taking action against the guy. Recently released from hospital with the bullet still in her chest.
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Re: Is the USA losing it, bit by bit?

#9 Post by ShootingSight »

bobbob wrote:How do you stop things like this happening though?
You don't.

Sure, there are things you can do to mitigate risk, like safety training, and there are recourses towads the firearm manufacturer if there is a negligence in design that allow a gun to go off when dropped (I think those little derringers are very basic designs, with limited safety features). But at the end of the day, there will be accidents, just like there are accidents with cars. No one will ever make society perfectly safe, so you have to chose the path of least evil. In this case, allowing citizens to carry guns is considered less damaging than banning all guns.

On the bright side, while California are acting to ban guns, over the past decade, or so, other states have one by one been getting various forms of concealed carry permits in place. Regrettably, the Heller case was poorly decided by the Supreme Court, and was thus not definitive, so the only thing it guarantees is that lawyers will make lots of money for the next several decades
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Chuck
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Re: Is the USA losing it, bit by bit?

#10 Post by Chuck »

Seems the sign has to be official and placed at a certain spot..I'll try and get the full script on it. In fact I think the ONLY place they can legally do that is where they sell alcohol, and the sign has to be alongside the liquor licence...but don't quote me on that. Seems that the typical "no guns" sign (gun in a red circle with a red line across) on a shop window actually infringes second ammendment rights..

My buddies here have now seemingly started a wee jaunt at weekends where they turn up say 20-30 strong at a restaurant sporting a "no guns sign" and ask if they can dine whist carrying..very few owners seem to refuse 30 big bears wanting to feed....money talks...
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