Variation for Non-HOA Club

[Thorney]

I'm trying reconcile the not odd but not sensible comment :) But I take your point.

The position is consistent with the law, which is an ass.

The downside to complaining about it of course is their idea of a review will simply add on more restrictions so we just deal with it really.

[PeterN]

As well as quarry shooting and target shooting, there is another good reason for firearms possession and that is collecting. I am a member of two HO approved clubs but neither are noted on my FAC. I used to state 'target shooting' as a reason on variations but when numbers started to rise they began to query why I wanted another rifle. Didn't I have enough for target shooting? I advised that it was the historical aspect I was interested in rather than specific target shooting so they arranged to turn me into a collector. My rifles are now possessed for '...the purpose of its being kept or exhibited as part of a collection and may be used for target shooting on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm with adequate financial arrangements in place...'. I asked about ammunition collecting and they gave me a condition to collect '...up to 750 rounds of ammunition up to and including .577 of any mark or variant, including expanding, military, armour piercing, tracer and incendiary ammunition...'. I used that condition to buy one round of .50BMG for £2.50 from a dealer at the Trafalgar Meeting. The dealer was a bit sad that I meant one round and not one hundred rounds.
I have shot all my rifles but some get shot more than others. I am under no obligation to shoot any of my rifles so some are used rarely. I am happy with the arrangements in place for my firearms hobby.
Regards
Peter.

[Thorney]

As well as quarry shooting and target shooting, there is another good reason for firearms possession and that is collecting. I am a member of two HO approved clubs but neither are noted on my FAC. I used to state 'target shooting' as a reason on variations but when numbers started to rise they began to query why I wanted another rifle. Didn't I have enough for target shooting? I advised that it was the historical aspect I was interested in rather than specific target shooting so they arranged to turn me into a collector. My rifles are now possessed for '...the purpose of its being kept or exhibited as part of a collection and may be used for target shooting on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm with adequate financial arrangements in place...'. I asked about ammunition collecting and they gave me a condition to collect '...up to 750 rounds of ammunition up to and including .577 of any mark or variant, including expanding, military, armour piercing, tracer and incendiary ammunition...'. I used that condition to buy one round of .50BMG for £2.50 from a dealer at the Trafalgar Meeting. The dealer was a bit sad that I meant one round and not one hundred rounds.
I have shot all my rifles but some get shot more than others. I am under no obligation to shoot any of my rifles so some are used rarely. I am happy with the arrangements in place for my firearms hobby.
Regards
Peter.

Yep, fair comment, forgot collectors.

[450 Martini]

Re-enacting/living History also counts as good reason and allows one to own a varied selection of firearms and the chance to hire and shoot section 5 firearms under supervision at certain events.

[Pippin89]

Thanks everyone for your comments... to explain a little further. I am a member of a HOA smallbore club that also shoots fullbore at Bisley. However, the fullbore shoots only cover 7.62/.308 as that is the only discipline we hold shoots for.
A new club is just about to open in my area with a fullbore range which is signed off by police for up to 30-06. I know someone will complain at that terminology but that is how the club is advertising it.
However, the range is only open to existing FAC holders as they do not have facilities for training etc and are not HOA. If you want to shoot there, you book the range and they supply an RCO for you. Thats it. It is also set up for bench shooting from a covered position and is not suitable for my current rifles which are all set up for prone shooting off a sling.
My plan was to put in a variation for a .223 or similar for use at that club but I have now noticed they are not HOA.

By the sounds of the responses, my feeling was correct and the law doesn't allow for me to do as planned. But there is a chance that my FEO will allow it so worth asking...

[Thorney]

Thanks everyone for your comments... to explain a little further. I am a member of a HOA smallbore club that also shoots fullbore at Bisley. However, the fullbore shoots only cover 7.62/.308 as that is the only discipline we hold shoots for.
A new club is just about to open in my area with a fullbore range which is signed off by police for up to 30-06. I know someone will complain at that terminology but that is how the club is advertising it.
However, the range is only open to existing FAC holders as they do not have facilities for training etc and are not HOA. If you want to shoot there, you book the range and they supply an RCO for you. Thats it. It is also set up for bench shooting from a covered position and is not suitable for my current rifles which are all set up for prone shooting off a sling.
My plan was to put in a variation for a .223 or similar for use at that club but I have now noticed they are not HOA.

By the sounds of the responses, my feeling was correct and the law doesn't allow for me to do as planned. But there is a chance that my FEO will allow it so worth asking...

If your small bore club shoots at Bisley then that should be enough.

[Mattnall]

It won't matter that the new club is not HO approved.
Your nominated club is approved and has full-bore, and you can always shoot at Bisley with that club as they are affiliated to the NRA (or get them to book a target for you to shoot anything there that you're SSC'ed for). It doesn't matter that they only shoot 7.62, they could if they wanted shoot anything else there - so you have your 'safe place' for the variation.

[450 Martini]

That is correct. Condition 5 on FACs for target normally read: THE FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION SHALL BE USED FOR TARGET SHOOTING, AND ONLY WHILST A MEMBER OF XXXXX RIFLE CLUBON RANGES SUITABLE FOR THE USE OF THAT CLASS OF FIREARMAND WITH ADEQUET FINANCIAL ARRANGEMENTS IN PLACE TO MEET ANY INJURY OR DAMAGE CLAIM.
This lets certificate holders visit other clubs for competitions, legally shoot on military ranges and hire testing ranges.
When i was in my old club which only had an indoor range we used to run regular trips for shoots on military ranges or hire full bore ranges for the day. This was sufficient Good Reason for owning full bore centrefire.

[Pippin89]

This seems to be a little bit of a grey area.... My club does not book ranges for any other purpose than fullbore TR with 7.62/.308 and I only have an SSC for "Iron sighted rifle" (I was planning a scoped rifle for this one). One of our members is an FEO, although not mine, works with mine and knows this. Even if I could apply for it, I would fall short of the usage as neither club would be recording my usage of the rifle.

I guess the best way forward is to wait for the club to be fully open and then ask both them and my FEO to advise whether it is possible...

[hitchphil]

This seems to be a little bit of a grey area.... My club does not book ranges for any other purpose than fullbore TR with 7.62/.308 and I only have an SSC for "Iron sighted rifle" (I was planning a scoped rifle for this one). One of our members is an FEO, although not mine, works with mine and knows this. Even if I could apply for it, I would fall short of the usage as neither club would be recording my usage of the rifle.

I guess the best way forward is to wait for the club to be fully open and then ask both them and my FEO to advise whether it is possible...

I think you have been misinformed/confused? or are unduly worried by it? ..............

FACs allocations are approved by type, not sights - so you can take any rifle & calibre & fit a telescopic sight...... or a laser, red dot, open, v, dioptre etc. It does not change the rifle from being a rifle on the FAC.

- that for a FB club is any rifle larger than 22rf & smaller than 338 (if at Bisley) & on a rest it might be regarded as match rifle or if you also fit a bipod might be regarded as FTR or Recreational rifle, on a 22 its known as benchrest ........ fitting a scope is just an adaptor, a bit of metal, to mount it. Zeroing that is sometimes a little bit more involved, but the process is very similar to zeroing TR.

You can shoot a FB telescopic rifle without a SSC for that classification, if you have somebody next to you who does & so you can prove to them you know how to zero, sight & use it safely & thus get that added by your club chair.

Whilst a club records their members usage, there is nothing stopping you from keeping a personal record of that too (& hand loaded ammo use etc) to justify the possession. I have members who only Shoot TR with us as their primary club - but shoot Service Rifle or BP with another club - thats what they do.

You can shoot your telescopic equipped rifle / or fit your telescope to your TR at your club bookings, if there is spare time? which in my experience is most, if not all shoots, ok in a 2&15 TR competition day thats more problematic, but i assume the club has practice days too? If your club wont let you shoot scope rifle? because they 'only shoot TR' & you have asked & been refused? then imho its time to find another club!

If you want to shoot that rifle with a scope or a dedicated rifle with a scope over land instead of, or in addition to over a range (hunting etc) then thats outside the club & you need permission from the land owner & a DS1 approval. Your FAC is then changed.

So my advice is if worried talk to your FEO & go buy what you want to shoot, then use it minimum ~3x pa.

........ does that make more sense?