Non-native species

[meles meles]

We assumes that, like all true worm drowners, you held out your arms and explained that the 'giant rats' that got away were 'this big'...

[TRG-22]

What's madness is to think that it is right and proper for us to exterminate any other living creatures for our own convenience.

Actually, it's not just madness, it is morally disgusting.

Tell that to American farmers about feral hogs or Australian farmers about rabbits..........

I'm not suggesting it's either simple or easy.

Nor that lethal measures should never be used.

But I do object to unthinking defaults of lethal measures as first resorts.

[meles meles]

Jeremy could invite 'em round for tea and biscuits ...

[snayperskaya]

What's madness is to think that it is right and proper for us to exterminate any other living creatures for our own convenience.

Actually, it's not just madness, it is morally disgusting.

Tell that to American farmers about feral hogs or Australian farmers about rabbits..........

I'm not suggesting it's either simple or easy.

Nor that lethal measures should never be used.

But I do object to unthinking defaults of lethal measures as first resorts.

So what would be your first resort for one of these things?And they get bigger than this!........

I was talking to someone at my club the other month that culled one in the Forest of Dean here in the UK that was 11ft long from snout to tail.

[TRG-22]

I'm not going to pretend that there's a simple or easy answer, or any which aren't problematic in some way. I'm not pretending that I am an expert.

Nor am I going to suggest that no culling should ever be done - far from it, in fact, as I know it is to some extent necessary, often because of our previous meddling (Scottish deer face no natural predators which would normally take out the weak ones because we've exterminated them).

There can aso be revenue opportunities from hunting permits and facilities, and the sale of the meat - that boar, for example would furnish a great many barbeques. Although I believe that some people find the taste of the meat from uncastrated males as "tainted", but as a man who's happily eaten road-kill pheasant I'm probably not well placed to comment on that.

As I've said before, I have no problem with the killing of animals, I regularly eat bits of dead ones, and I have no problem with people taking pride in their stalking and marksmanship skills.

But I do object to the "shoot first, think about other ways later" philosophy, I don't think man has the moral right to kill any other creatures that he wants to for convenience, without looking for other ways. And all those who oppose rewilding as a way to try and restore some of the balance we have destroyed are basically saying that the ideal situation is where we have driven some species into extinction in particular areas.

Ever since the first stone age man cut down a tree or trapped or killed an animal we've been modifying our environment. Ever since we started domesticating wolves and aurochs and cross-breeding we've been engaged in genetic modification.

But we are, or should be, careful and resepectful stewards of the planet, not its jack-booted masters trying to bludgeon it into submission.

[TRG-22]

I live 150 yards away from the Tay and yesterday went for my lockdown exercise. I couldn't believe the damage being caused by beavers both from borrowing into the banks and felling trees.

What do you say to those who point out that beavers do a lot of good in managing water flows and reducing flooding?

Also invasive species

No, they used to be native.

We made them extinct.

Now we have positive comments on the release of wolves and lynx in Scotland.

So you think we should drive species into extinction?

Do you think that what was done to the passenger pigeon should be held up as shining example of man's interaction with the natural world?

Madness.

No.

Respectful, moral, co-operative sharing of the planet, not totalitarianism.

[Pete]

Snaperskaya, that looks like an estate agents photo to me..........and 11 feet long, really??

Pete

[snayperskaya]

Snaperskaya, that looks like an estate agents photo to me..........and 11 feet long, really??

Pete

I'll hold my hand up and say that looking at it logically I may have misheard the 11ft bit, but either way these things can get pretty bloody big.

[TRG-22]

Snaperskaya, that looks like an estate agents photo to me..........and 11 feet long, really??

Pete

[TRG-22]

I'll hold my hand up and say that looking at it logically I may have misheard the 11ft bit, but either way these things can get pretty bloody big.

Adult size and weight is largely determined by environmental factors; boars living in arid areas with little productivity tend to attain smaller sizes than their counterparts inhabiting areas with abundant food and water. In most of Europe, males average 75–100 kg (165–220 lb) in weight, 75–80 cm (30–31 in) in shoulder height and 150 cm (59 in) in body length, whereas females average 60–80 kg (130–180 lb) in weight, 70 cm (28 in) in shoulder height and 140 cm (55 in) in body length. In Europe's Mediterranean regions, males may reach average weights as low as 50 kg (110 lb) and females 45 kg (99 lb), with shoulder heights of 63–65 cm (25–26 in). In the more productive areas of Eastern Europe, males average 110–130 kg (240–290 lb) in weight, 95 cm (37 in) in shoulder height and 160 cm (63 in) in body length, while females weigh 95 kg (209 lb), reach 85–90 cm (33–35 in) in shoulder height and 145 cm (57 in) in body length. In Western and Central Europe, the largest males weigh 200 kg (440 lb) and females 120 kg (260 lb). In Northeastern Asia, large males can reach brown bear-like sizes, weighing 270 kg (600 lb) and measuring 110–118 cm (43–46 in) in shoulder height. Some adult males in Ussuriland and Manchuria have been recorded to weigh 300–350 kg (660–770 lb) and measure 125 cm (49 in) in shoulder height. Adults of this size are generally immune from wolf predation.[35] Such giants are rare in modern times, due to past overhunting preventing animals from attaining their full growth.[3]