Personally importing guns and ammunition

[Porcupine]

As I understand it, certificate holders importing firearms and ammunition for personal (i.e. not commercial) use do not require any special permit or need to go through any procedure. You can, I think, come back from France with a boot-load of ammunition or a bundle of rifles on the ferry - provided your certificate is in order (e.g. open slots for the rifles, not going over your ammo quota).

First question: How do you enter the guns on your certificate since there is no seller? Or do you have the foreign seller fill it out anyway? I suppose there must be a procedure for entering a weapon without a seller since you could make one yourself!

Second question: As I understand it, non-expanding ammunition can be sent through the ordinary mail system e.g. Royal Mail, UPS etc (only expanding ammo needs to go via TNT?). Does that mean I can send ammunition home from abroad by post? For that matter, can I order it abroad and have it delivered without ever leaving the country? With shotgun ammunition I can't actually see how this would be illegal since it is actually legal for anyone (e.g. random Royal Mail employees) to be in possession of shotgun ammunition (you just can't buy it without a certificate). But for section 1 ammo, that could be an issue.

The more awkward issue may be export laws in the country in question - I know I can get permission to take ammunition out of the USA for personal use, but this falls under the 'temporary export of firearms' form so I'd have to check with the ATF to see if they really do expect me to return with every single round of ammunition within 4 years! Otherwise what's the point of taking it out of country :?

[Dave 101]

Hi

When you bring firearms into the country you have to declare it to customs on arrival and get them to fill in your FAC which is something they dont want to do . This is only info which was passed to me by a shooting friend who did this a few years ago when he went to the US for his holidays . He used to build Ruger 10/22 and the barrels would be unchambered so were only a metal tube and not classed as a barrel .
Whether you can do it these days though as the US are a bit touchy about where their firearms may turn up .

Dave

[Porcupine]

Whether you can do it these days though as the US are a bit touchy about where their firearms may turn up.

Dave

Thanks, Dave. As long as I promise to bring any guns back within four years, getting them out of the USA is no problem - I just need to fill out a form when I get on the plane. As I say, if that rule really does apply to ammunition then unless I can get an export permit from the ATF then that's a none-starter as I don't intend to use it as ballast during that period! But I can't imagine it does - waiting on a reply from the ATF.

[ovenpaa]

As Dave says, the Customs should sign it onto your FAC but if they are unhappy about it your friendly FEO can do this when you get home (Apparently mine has had to do this a few times) I was considering bringing in a rifle from Denmark and had agreed I would call/email my FEO so he knew I had an an recorded firearm with me, there is no legal requirement to do this.

Ammunition wise, some countries do not ask to see an FAC when you purchase as systems vary from place country to country. First proper stop in Denmark next week is to pick up some 7,62x51. I very much doubt they will ask for anything from me other than payment. I have only been challenged once in DK and even then they just asked if I was allowed to own it, I said yes and that was it, conversation over.

I have never tried nor considered posting ammunition, is it really legal for us to do it? Even if it was from me to me I would not be happy, certainly not with our postal service. Someone to me must be a non starter as they cannot sign it onto my FAC.

[Chuck]

Your gun will be checked in so you will have to collect at the airport, mine was under a certain value so no declaration. Police were spot on and actually took time to chat about the shorgun (S1) in question.

As for just turning up and getting it on your ticket, Strathclyde went ape at the thought of ANYONE other than them entering any info...Strictly speaking according to THEM if it is NOT already on your FAC when you turn up then you have no authority to possess it....and will get done.......according to Strathclyde..

I was lucky as I already had the serial number and they did it before I left.

Why can't the dealer abroad not fill in the FAC and fax/email the relevant info to the police???? Seems a simple enough process provided you have the spare slot on your ticket..

Even if it were an expensive firearm, if you could get the info on your ticket BEFORE you go then why would you mention it to customs....hypothetically...of course

[ovenpaa]

As for just turning up and getting it on your ticket, Strathclyde went ape at the thought of ANYONE other than them entering any info...Strictly speaking according to THEM if it is NOT already on your FAC when you turn up then you have no authority to possess it....and will get done.......according to Strathclyde..

I was lucky as I already had the serial number and they did it before I left.

Why can't the dealer abroad not fill in the FAC and fax/email the relevant info to the police???? Seems a simple enough process provided you have the spare slot on your ticket..

Even if it were an expensive firearm, if you could get the info on your ticket BEFORE you go then why would you mention it to customs....hypothetically...of course

The foreign dealer probably would add it if asked to do so however they seem to have no real understanding of our FAC system. Strathclyde have an interesting take on the entry of details, my FEO is just the opposite and wants nothing to do with it unless pushed as it is in his opinion a function of Customs upon entry to the UK. This is why I had agreed to let my FEO the moment I had the rifle in my hands and give him details to save any problems, yes I would technically still be breaking the law but telling them would at least mitigate the circumstances....

Hopefully!

How many people do we know that have been stopped by the police and their firearms checked whilst they were driving somewhere? It has never happened to me, closest I have got is Customs and home visits.

[Watcher]

I had a rifle imported for me from the US. No one wanted to sign anything! In the end I went and picked it up at my local postal sorting office. I sent my FAC into the local police HQ and they sent it back without entering the rifle. Just said that they had updated their records and they would enter it next time I renewed! I did ask about getting Customs to fill in the FAC and they said they didn't want to. I also asked about having it sent to a UK dealer but again no one was bothered. All seemed rather haphazard.

[Sim G]

As for just turning up and getting it on your ticket, Strathclyde went ape at the thought of ANYONE other than them entering any info...Strictly speaking according to THEM if it is NOT already on your FAC when you turn up then you have no authority to possess it....and will get done.......according to Strathclyde..

At risk of bad mouthing colleagues north of the border, that is utter rubbish! It is contrary to the conditions of a FAC/SGC and no doubt contrary to a number of pieces of exise legislation. Your FAC/SGC acts as a personal import licence for guns and ammo, as long as you have the necessary authority to possess those items once they are in the UK, ie cleared customs.

Bringing them in personally on a ship or plane is easy. You go through the red channel, show the item/s to UKBA with your tickets and the purchase receipts. They calculate the duties due, you pay them, they enter on your ticket, away you go. You then have to inform your force who issued the FAC, in writing within seven days, that you imported said firearm/shotgun. This I have done on a couple of occassions. Check the conditions on your FAC/SGC, it will say as much...

A mate bought a Surgeon built rifle from the US. When it arrived in the UK, they wrote to him with the cost of the duty due. He paid it, then drove to the Coventry hub and picked the rifle up. UKBA entered it on to his ticket and he took it away.

Another friend is a dealer. He has again bought "guns" from the US, but stayed within S.58. When they arrived in the country, they were checked by UKBA as complying with S.58, charged him the customs due and had them delivered to his house by the carrier.

Guns into the country is fairly easy. I'm afraid I don't have any experience of posting ammunition. But, I suspect that may be more difficult because of the "explosives" tag that carriers seem to attach to ammo and powders.

The problem does seem to be these days, not getting guns into the UK, but out of places. My mate was at Bristows in Florida learning to fly helicopters. He was a legal resident with a CCW and a hunting licence so could buy guns legally, even though he was temporarily in the counry. When he was due to come back, we looked at him bringing a particular model of the Marlin .45-70 back for me. Getting him a UK permit was fairly straight forward, but in order to bring it out of the US, the ATF wanted several forms filling in and sending to them for approval, a number of weeks before he travelled. They were very specific about what could and could not leave the US. Unfortunately time beat us. Shame, as I would have saved about 600 quid!!!!

[Chuck]

Sim, Strathclyde do what they do...and they did often. One of the MOST difficult areas I believe. If they can find a way to make life difficult they can (did, I here they got better when someone left!)

[Watcher]

When I imported my rifle from the US the thing that took all the time was getting the export licence from the US Government. As it was I was in no hurry and the dealer (Brian Dick) was an expert in getting it sorted. It just took about three months as I recall.