Is it the primers or what itis

[jack1]

I have been loading for over 3 decades. Just recently I have had 'phut' loads when I have carefully measured 4.5 grains of HP38 into a 357 case to be shot in my Marlin. Maybe one in 4 goes phut bullet leaves the barrel but is seemingly low powered but as I said I have carefully measured 4.5 grains of HP38. The primers are CCI small pistol no problem there as I have been using them for years in the 357 cases and Marlin. Just recently we have the 'phutters'. I have tumbled and checked the cases for splits. The primers are maybe up to 6 /7 years old do they have a shelf life? They are loaded as part of the Hornady loading system and fully 'home'. They ignite but send phutters.....Any ideas please
Thanks
Jack

[DavidRees]

Primers last for decades -- no worries there.

A round in a split case will still shoot reasonably normally -- certainly you won't get a significant drop off in bullet velocity.

If your primers are going off, the powder will ignite -- unless there is *something* wrong with the powder, or there is no or little powder.

1 in 4 is a pretty telling ratio. If it were a very rare event, I'd attribute it to a case without powder in it, or only a smidgen. As it is, I'd suggest one of two possibilities:

1. There has been an issue with your reloading technique, and so you could pull (disassemble) a sample of the assembled rounds, catching the powder each time, and checking carefully for how much is there. But you state you have carefully measured the HP38 each time, so if this is not the issue (I'd still check if I were you), then:

2. There is an issue with the powder. Again, it should last for decades, but do you know how old the powder is, and where it has been stored? Open the tub, and smell it -- a strong smell indicates it has gone off, and should be discarded (makes great lawn fertiliser). Is there a date code on the tub (afraid I don't know HP38 packaging today, but Vihtavuori started putting dates on all their tubs around 2001, perhaps other manufacturers did too).

My best guess, based on what you have told us, is that your powder is at fault. Try a different powder (perhaps other than HP38) and see how that works. Anyone in your club you could scrounge some powder from?

[phaedra1106]

If the powder was "off" I'd expect every load to show the same problem. Try a batch of 20 with a different brand or newer primers.

As said primers should last for decades but storage conditions can affect both primers and powders. Powders usually smell very acrid, a bit like burning plastic, when they've gone off.

Again, as said, triple check your powder measurement, are you individually weighing each charge or using a powder dispenser of some sort?.

[jack1]

If the powder was "off" I'd expect every load to show the same problem. Try a batch of 20 with a different brand or newer primers.

As said primers should last for decades but storage conditions can affect both primers and powders. Powders usually smell very acrid, a bit like burning plastic, when they've gone off.

Again, as said, triple check your powder measurement, are you individually weighing each charge or using a powder dispenser of some sort?.

Thanks for that I'll make another 20 rounds with new cases. The HP38 is 3 weeks old
Jack

[Mike95]

Crimp? If you are using a roll crimp...needs to be consistent. If a light load may need a heavier crimp. Placement of powder..? Tip back rifle each time to place powder close to primer? As in CAS. Primers, if faulty will usually fail alltogether. Primers kept in dry conditions? Trial and error....

Mike95

[jack1]

Crimp? If you are using a roll crimp...needs to be consistent. If a light load may need a heavier crimp. Placement of powder..? Tip back rifle each time to place powder close to primer? As in CAS. Primers, if faulty will usually fail alltogether. Primers kept in dry conditions? Trial and error....

Mike95

Hi
Thanks for all that. Yes there is a crimp from a Lee factory crimp die. This is a new phenomenon never happened before. So, as I said I will make a batch of 20 individually
Thanks
Jack

[jack1]

If the powder was "off" I'd expect every load to show the same problem. Try a batch of 20 with a different brand or newer primers.

As said primers should last for decades but storage conditions can affect both primers and powders. Powders usually smell very acrid, a bit like burning plastic, when they've gone off.

Again, as said, triple check your powder measurement, are you individually weighing each charge or using a powder dispenser of some sort?.

Hi Powder has been individually weighed, cases inspected, primers seated, roll crimp applied. Next a new batch all of the above but with new cases
Thanks
Jack

[jack1]

Primers last for decades -- no worries there.

A round in a split case will still shoot reasonably normally -- certainly you won't get a significant drop off in bullet velocity.

If your primers are going off, the powder will ignite -- unless there is *something* wrong with the powder, or there is no or little powder.

1 in 4 is a pretty telling ratio. If it were a very rare event, I'd attribute it to a case without powder in it, or only a smidgen. As it is, I'd suggest one of two possibilities:

1. There has been an issue with your reloading technique, and so you could pull (disassemble) a sample of the assembled rounds, catching the powder each time, and checking carefully for how much is there. But you state you have carefully measured the HP38 each time, so if this is not the issue (I'd still check if I were you), then:

2. There is an issue with the powder. Again, it should last for decades, but do you know how old the powder is, and where it has been stored? Open the tub, and smell it -- a strong smell indicates it has gone off, and should be discarded (makes great lawn fertiliser). Is there a date code on the tub (afraid I don't know HP38 packaging today, but Vihtavuori started putting dates on all their tubs around 2001, perhaps other manufacturers did too).

My best guess, based on what you have told us, is that your powder is at fault. Try a different powder (perhaps other than HP38) and see how that works. Anyone in your club you could scrounge some powder from?

Hi
Powder is 3 weeks old individually measured, primers 6/7 years +, cases new and ancient all tumbled, roll crimp. Next a new batch with new case
Thanks
Jack

[dodgyrog]

A light hammer spring could cause the problem with the primer ignition being slow.
Just a thought

[jack1]

A light hammer spring could cause the problem with the primer ignition being slow.
Just a thought

Yes a good thought! Thanks
Jack