Just starting out with reloading

[Yogibear]

Hi all,

I am slowly getting my self set up to start reloading for .308 and 6Br. The main purpose is really to get me shooting more, but for the same cost. The majority of ammo would be used for practice and training for TR at 300-600 yards. Eventually I would like to be loading for accuracy also.
Trying to acquire items as funds allow and I have a few questions to start off with. I'm sure over the winter I will ask many more.

Roughly how many times can you reload .308 brass? I have the opportunity to acquire lots of 3 times fired cases. They would all have been full length resized each time and fired from different rifles. I understand that had they all been fired through the same rifle each time and only neck sized, then they would likely have a longer service life. I don't want to pay top price for them if they only have a few reloads left in their life. They would be RWS, GGG or Lapua cases.

Second question. When loading using a progressive press, what do people do for cleaning? My logic and OCD personality would have me de-prime, resize then clean every round before reloading. But since I would be doing this to make lots of good practice ammo, could I get away without cleaning the cases and just doing one pass through the progressive press? Clean maybe every 2nd or3rd reload? Although this is practice ammo I would still like it to be able to hold a good group.

TIA

[Alpha1]

I don't clean cases every time I reload cleaning cases helps to spot defects but cleaning won't make any difference to how they perform.
As for case life I have .308 cases that have been re loaded at least ten times I neck size nearly all of my cases I full lentgh size every fifth firing. It's more important to check case lentgh and trim than it is to clean.

[rox]

Second question. When loading using a progressive press, what do people do for cleaning?

My cleaning process for progressive loading .308 is as follows.

There are 2 versions, depending on the volume to be loaded.

1: Smaller volumes (say, up to 1,000).

• a) Decap (usually on single stage, on returning from the range).
• b) Stainless media tumble.
• c) Lube.
• d) Press pass 1: Decap (checks flash-hole clear), Expand neck dings, [optional Small-base body size], FL size, trim, neck uniform/expand.
• e) Delube (vibratory tumble in fine walnut).
• f) Press pass 2: Decap (checks flash-hole clear), Flare for bullet drop, prime, powder drop, bullet drop, bullet seat.

If starting with a large volume of initially dirty brass, I may give it a short tumble in walnut to remove loose crud then run though the progressive to decap-only before stainless cleaning.
If starting with brass from various rifles I incorporate a small-base body size, either during press pass 1, or as an additional pass before press pass 1.

2: Larger volumes.

• a) Tumble in fine walnut media (with primers in).
• b) Lube.
• c) Press pass 1: Decap, Expand neck dings, [optional Small-base body size], FL size, trim, neck uniform/expand.
• d) Delube (vibratory tumble in fine walnut).
• e) Press pass 2: Decap (checks flash-hole clear), Flare for bullet drop, prime, powder drop, bullet drop, bullet seat.

I usually have a decap die in the first stage of the press regardless of the process, just to ensure the flash hole is clear of media, although my walnut media is too fine to get stuck in the flash hole.
The 'Expand Neck Dings' is an oversize expander to take care of dinged necks - usually it doesn't touch the case.


I tend to load about 5 or 6 times before parking the brass for annealing. I have yet to anneal a single case though. I'm not likely to need to anneal the parked stuff to resume using it, but I may start annealing every 2 or 3 cycles to improve neck tension consistency.

I wouldn't ever resize before cleaning - I don't like dirty brass hitting my dies or my presses. For reliable and consistent progressive operation, cleanliness is next to godliness. I don't see any point depriming before dry media tumbling, since that cleaning method does little to clean the pockets even with the primers removed, but for stainless media cleaning it is essential.

Roughly how many times can you reload .308 brass? I have the opportunity to acquire lots of 3 times fired cases. They would all have been full length resized each time and fired from different rifles. I understand that had they all been fired through the same rifle each time and only neck sized, then they would likely have a longer service life. I don't want to pay top price for them if they only have a few reloads left in their life. They would be RWS, GGG or Lapua cases.

Full-length sizing doesn't significantly reduce the brass life per se; Repeated full length sizing combined with firing in sloppier chambers, or excessive shoulder set-back will shorten the life to varying degrees, but it's usually high pressures loosening primer pockets, or split necks that kill brass. You should not need to get into this zone for 300 to 600 yard .308 loads. The effect of previous loading on your brass will depend on the brass itself and the worst-case combinations of the shoulder set-back and the chambers in which it was fired. In other words - nigh on impossible to guess.


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[flamoudi]

I agree with keeping brass clean, there's not that much saved time in avoiding cleaning.

I'm curious of the "flare for bullet drop"? I've never flared a necked case, is that what you meant?

As you said it's your method and mine will be different as my dies are different. I only use a single station press for long guns as there's too much movement in progressive presses even when set to one station only.

[rox]

I'm curious of the "flare for bullet drop"? I've never flared a necked case, is that what you meant?

For volumes where individually chamfering each case is impractical it's common to use a tiny amount of flare to lead the bullet in without shaving (especially when using a bullet feeder). In fact, I think it gives a smoother transition than a chamfer (there's no sharp inside edge), and actually aligns the bullet perfectly before seating. Care is needed to ensure such a flare doesn't interfere with a tight-necked chamber (trim length must be consistent, for example). Some use a taper crimp to close any flare (without actually crimping), but this shouldn't be necessary. M Dies are commonly used for this; I started with these then switched to custom flare expanders, and finally I made custom floating stepped flare expanders to reduce potential runout issues arising from M die use.

I only use a single station press for long guns as there's too much movement in progressive presses even when set to one station only.

Really too much movement? I see no greater range of variation of any dimension than I do with single stage presses (for similar run lengths). Practically all are at the limits of the relevant measuring tools. It does take a well designed and implemented process, a well maintained press and the right components, but I've never believed the adage that "progressives are 'too sloppy' to make decent match ammo for rifles" to the point where I bought one to test the theory, and 5 years on I'm satisfied enough that I'm adding another one on Saturday.

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[Yogibear]

Thanks for the advice.

So just for quickly making training ammo, I could get away with giving the cases a quick wipe clean and lube then doing one pass through a progressive press.
Second hand brass with an unknown history would be deprimed, cleaned and full length resized and trimmed for first time reloaded by me and I happily reload them until they show signs of failing.

What are your opinions on the sonic cleaners? I'm inclined to go that way but maybe I am missing something.

[WelshShooter]

Thanks for the advice.

So just for quickly making training ammo, I could get away with giving the cases a quick wipe clean and lube then doing one pass through a progressive press.
Second hand brass with an unknown history would be deprimed, cleaned and full length resized and trimmed for first time reloaded by me and I happily reload them until they show signs of failing.

What are your opinions on the sonic cleaners? I'm inclined to go that way but maybe I am missing something.

Segregate your brass by headstamp. Some brands of brass are thicker than others, therefore the same load in other brands of brass might not give you the same velocity and/or grouping.

In my experience, ultrasonic cleaning will clean your brass but won't leave it shining. I use a homemade recipe using dehydrated citric acid with hot water and some dish soap to act as a surfactant. I set the temperature to 45C using the below ultrasonic cleaner and clean 50 cases in a 10 minute cycle. I then give them a good rinse with water to remove all traces of citric acid followed by a quick hand dry, concentrating on the case necks to remove residual carbon not rinsed off. I then leave them on a towel to dry overnight. After they have dried, I give them a quick 30 minute tumble just to make them shine using a Frankford Arsenal tumbler with Lyman's Green Corn Cob media. Not necessary, but I prefer to have clean, shiny brass as it helps me to see any split necks etc.

Regular tumbling will do the job, but in my experience it's not sufficient at removing all carbon fouling from the case neck exterior. For me, ultrasonic cleaning did this.

The pictures below show some 8mm Mauser cases before cleaning, and after the ultrasonic + tumble clean per my above process. You can see there's a lot of carbon build up on the dirty cases (this was a very low charge and the case mouth didn't fully seal which lead to the gas flowing down the case body and leaving carbon staining/residue). I couldn't remove this after three hours of tumbling, but a ten minute ultrasonic wash and a thirty minute tumble made this brass look as good as new!

http://www.dstele.com/jpl-ultra-8060-pr ... al-cleaner

[Alpha1]

I think people are getting confused you need to read the guys original post the guy is looking for a basic set up for reloading .308.
He is not loading match ammo or cast bullets. Why would he need to flare cases.? Why would any one need to flare cases unless they were loading cast bullets.?

I don't understand this need to clean cases to the extreme after every firing either.
I don't flare .308 I clean cases when I can be bothered they all end up in the in the centre of the target some of the groups are slightly bigger than others. So what.

[rox]

Thanks for the advice.

So just for quickly making training ammo, I could get away with giving the cases a quick wipe clean and lube then doing one pass through a progressive press.
Second hand brass with an unknown history would be deprimed, cleaned and full length resized and trimmed for first time reloaded by me and I happily reload them until they show signs of failing.

What are your opinions on the sonic cleaners? I'm inclined to go that way but maybe I am missing something.

There's no way that I know of to load rifle brass in a single progressive pass when FL sizing is included. How would you do it? Would you load lubed brass then de-lube loaded rounds? Wouldn't you have powder stuck in lube where it entered the case mouth?

Why would you deprime before cleaning? If you have a progressive it seems like an unnecessary manual step that offers no benefit (except with stainless tumbling).

Brass of the nature you describe almost always needs small base sizing.

Ultrasonic cleaning was not for me. Tried two machines (one industrial). Couldn't get good results except with very small numbers of cases at a time. Very laborious indeed. Also experienced discoloration of the brass that was of concern (possible zinc leeching out).

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[dromia]

When batch loading 303 (or any other calibre for that matter) on my progressives with cases that have been fired in different guns and need full length sizing I put the cases in a box and lightly mist them with a lanolin and alcohol mix in a pump sprayer, gently shake the cases in the box, let them dry off and away I go. Powder sticking to the case mouth isn't an issue.

All rounds are cleaned afterwards with a quick shake around in a box of walnut and corncob media.

Cases are tumbled before hand in walnut and Tcut, primer pockets are cleaned every fourth firing when all cases are case prepped.

Never found a need to flare a case mouth with condom bullets, with cast the necks are expanded to the correct diameter never flared.