FAC RE NEW QUESTION

[Alpha1]

I have just submitted my Fac renewal to my local plod at the moment I have eleven rifles and three slots I could fill in 223 .22 and 6.5x55 wich would take me up to fourteen fire arms.
These have been on my certificate since my last renewal five years ago.
I had a call to day from my licencing department telling me I can only have twelve fire arms if I want any more I have to have a monitored alarm fitted so I must give up two of my un filled slots.
So whats stopping me filling those three slots befor my certificate is renewed next month.
Why was it OK five years ago but now it isnt.

[Christel]

We were told the same a few years back. Reach 12 (I think it was) and we would need a monitored alarm installed.

I am fairly certain if you fill the slots then they will ask you for the alarm system.

I told Ovenpaa that we were not doing that and he would have to downsize.... :lol:

[ovenpaa]

The thing is that is12 per household and not each which is not good when you have two FAC holders under the same roof. Bedfordshire used to say go into double figures and you need the monitored alarm.

[Sim G]

Nowhere, in either the Home Office Guidance to Police 2002 or the Firearms Security Handbook 2005, does it say that a monitored alarm system is a mandatory requirement. It's a fad used to try and restrict the number of firearms held by an individual regardless if they have good reason or not, IMO.

If your adamant you're not going the monitored route, are you sure the rest of your security would be deemed appropriate? Decent doors, locks and lighting? Have you prepared your own risk assessment on the threat of being a victim in regards to possible unauthorised access to your firearms? Speak with your local PCSO and ask for in writing the current crime trends in your area and have a look at sites such as mouseprice, which gives a comparison of crime in your area compared with the national average.

Have you got a noisey, big dog? For how long per day is your home not occupied? In short, prepare a rebuttal based on fact and anecdotal evidence and present that. Get on the BASC site and print off copies of the Guidance, Acts and Security handbook and refer to them.

The Security handbook tself states that the number of firearms alone should not be used to demand certain security....

It also states that over 12 firearms held, "Level 2" security should be considered....

2.20 Where the individual circumstances are such that additional security might be required due
to factors such as: repeat victimisation, high-crime location, building regularly unoccupied, a substantial number of firearms on the premises, in addition to the provision of a suitable cabinet, gun room or safe, the following may be considered:

a) The final exit door locks should be to BS3621 or equivalent and any French
windows/patio doors should have an integral locking system or be provided with
supplementary locks to frustrate forcible opening, together with anti-lift blocks if
applicable.

b) The above requirements will be met in properties with PVCu doors or specialist doors
by a multi-locking system, which is secured by a deadlock.

c) Windows on the ground floor and those accessible from flat roofs etc should be fitted
with an appropriate type and number of locks which are self-latching or key operated.
These should have casement-to-frame locking along the opening edge.

d) An audible intruder alarm to the appropriate standard protecting either the whole of the
premises or those parts of the premises where the guns are stored


2.21 For these purposes, a “substantial” number of firearms should be considered with regard to the type of firearms, their potential danger if misused and their likely attractiveness to criminals. At the lower end the number might vary between six and ten, depending on the type of firearm concerned, whilst anything over ten would rarely be lower than level

It must be stressed, however, that it is not enough to base an assessment on the number of firearms alone – all factors mentioned above and in paragraph 2.20 should be taken into account. Sound moderators, spare barrels, spare cylinders and component parts should not be considered as part of the total.

2.22 A different form of security which equates to that above (such as providing a reinforced gun room or other area), may also be suitable.
Level 3

[Alpha1]

What I can not understand is how it was OK at my last renewal five years ago but now it is not.

[Mike357]

Probably increased pressure by your Chief Constable to report a decrease in firearm numbers. If you can justify more than 12 then submit the renewal for more and appeal it and make sure you tell them you'll seek costs!

[Robin128]

I have just submitted my Fac renewal to my local plod at the moment I have eleven rifles and three slots I could fill in 223 .22 and 6.5x55 wich would take me up to fourteen fire arms.
These have been on my certificate since my last renewal five years ago.
I had a call to day from my licencing department telling me I can only have twelve fire arms if I want any more I have to have a monitored alarm fitted so I must give up two of my un filled slots.
So whats stopping me filling those three slots befor my certificate is renewed next month.
Why was it OK five years ago but now it isnt.

There is nothing...just do it.

:)

[Steve]

Why was it OK five years ago but now it isnt.

I know the Police go by crime numbers in particular areas.Maybe crime has increased a little where you live?

Here in Cambridgeshire we're allowed upto 9,but over that they want an alarm on either the house/room or cupboard the safes are-a £100 B&Q jobbie is apparently fine.

Over 14 it must be monitored.

[Porcupine]

Just my 2p: When I applied for my certificate my FEO said I needed a British standard gun cabinet. I got a clamp instead, with no standard marks. I was approved anyway.

Perhaps just try it and see. The worst that can happen is they say "No you really do need an alarm," but they might not care (or want to risk a court case) enough to give you a hard time over it.

[dromia]

I had this a few years ago when I was climbing the slots ladder, at that time I was asking for an increase to 30 slots at renewal. They said I had to have a dedicated alarm or no more. I politely wrote back to them explaining that I thought it was excessive for the risk, low crime area, multiple cabinets at different levels in the house allowing for remote separation of bolts from rifles, existing security - reinforced door jambs, suitable locks, house alarm, window locks etc etc.

They wrote back and said OK and I got my slots, they had done their bit in asking for the security, I'd disagreed with reason and so on my head be it seemed to be their reaction.

Some years later I did make a dedicated gun room with a monitored alarm but then I had 100 guns on my ticket.