EU Deact proposal will go ahead!

[Maggot]

Whilst I hold the majority of the re-enacting community in contempt for driving the the de-act market by their living history hypocrisy in choosing to use deacts over the real thing, I have respect for those minority of re-enactors who know the importance of leaving un-molested guns in their original condition and see the importance of this.

This is yet again, bad, ill thought through firearms legislation which should be challenged and fought by all shooters and gun owners. However I suspect that none of our "national" "representative" bodies will mobilise their membership and the shooting community in opposing this misplaced attack on gun ownership that will do little to help ensure public safety.

Yet again we have the small minded approach to gun ownership that it doesn't effect me so I won't challenge it.

Make no mistake this legislation is yet another nail in the coffin of legal gun ownership and shooting in the UK.

We should stand beside our re-enacting brethren on this, shoulder to shoulder for the benefit of all gun owners regardless of the the low opinion genuine gun aficionados justifiably hold the re-enacting community in.

Cant argue with that.

A while back I was shown a deac in the process of being de-ac'd by an RFd Friend. I was horrified and asked how he could do it?

He was equally un enthusiastic but pointed out that the owner just did not want to give it up so it was going on the wall. Now personally I would rather give my rifles to a decent owner who will shoot them than do that to them, but I see this is not always the feeling.

The real nub is how many important artefacts will be destroyed before they get it. Any SOWR or historic rifle is an artefact of at least some historical importance.

They have done it with aircraft, tanks, then regretted it.

It will be a bit like that Jonie Mitchell (IIRC ) song, "Don't it always seem to go that we don't know what we've got till its gone?"

Maddness

There are rumblings in the ACF about the No8 going west....it wont go for a while as they dont have a replacement but no doubt, like the Clansman radio system, it will get scrapped before they get a replacement

I keep suggesting they get MP15-22s but am told they need a progression...ah well.....

[Blackstuff]

Well that's one way to get a load of old-spec de-acts onto the black market

[HH1]

Whilst I hold the majority of the re-enacting community in contempt for driving the the de-act market by their living history hypocrisy in choosing to use deacts over the real thing, I have respect for those minority of re-enactors who know the importance of leaving un-molested guns in their original condition and see the importance of this.

That is a slightly harsher version of how I feel...but I agree with you.

Yet again we have the small minded approach to gun ownership that it doesn't effect me so I won't challenge it.

Make no mistake this legislation is yet another nail in the coffin of legal gun ownership and shooting in the UK.

We should stand beside our re-enacting brethren on this, shoulder to shoulder for the benefit of all gun owners regardless of the the low opinion genuine gun aficionados justifiably hold the re-enacting community in.

Agreed, I think we are all familiar with a certain high profile magazine contributor who would throw us all under the bus if we like "black rifle"s or Practical shotguns.

There is one dealer who I see at Arms Fairs who has told me that he buys rifles such as Lee Enfields in batches for the sole purpose of turning them into deacts for the collectors and wannabe weekend soldiers. He does the deactivation himself and sends them off for proof and turns a tidy profit.... I tell him that is "Criminal" and he just shrugs his shoulders and says, "but that is what they want, and they will pay thesis silly prices"...

[ovenpaa]

I remember seeing a superb and boxed 4(T) that had belonged to a Vicar, he apparently sold up as being too old and it was promptly de@ctivated. Same complay had a couple of SA stamped MN's, they were in fine condition, crisp triggers yet ruined for ever. Fit only for fence posts and fire wood.

It was absolutely criminal and the 'person' selling them told me they had just sold an all original and boxed L42A1 for cash a few minutes before, he was delighted as they it had only come back from the Proof house the week before. Even our Police forces are starting to take a reasoned view on firearms of historical interest that are handed in.

[HH1]

Also the vast majority of people I know would rather not see any usable firearms deactivated

Which is very commendable

, but we are subject to the same inane useless laws as the rest of UK Shooters.
For anyone who re-enacts pre 1890's deacts are quite rare martini henry's, sniders, P-53's, brown besses, and matchlocks are quite easy to get a FAC or SGC for. inert replicas of some of these are freely available.

Agreed, many of theses old, intact rifles are too valuable and important for re-anactors to be romping around in wet, muddy fields with.

So, by your own admission, people are using "inert replicas some of which are freely available"... if that is the case, then why can't all re-anactors "make do" with replicas? In fact, someone like yourself who is a "serious" re-enactor could do a lot of good if you were to promote the use of replicas and therefore protect genuine rifles from horrendous butchering? If manufactures see a demand for inert replicas, I'm sure they could start making anything you might need.

20th Century conflict reenactors are the ones who drive the deact market, specifically the WW2 mob.
My Great War group (The Birmingham Pals) prides itself in the high number of Firearm Certificates held by the membership, this is possible due to a long standing good relation with both west mids and Staffordshire police and occasional words of advice from a friendly FEO from another force. Over the past 4 years I have helped about 10 people through the FAC process.

Hmmmm, I didn't realise that there were distinctions within the re-enactment community... I thought Medieval, Romans, Vikings, World-War etc. en-actors were all the same, just a bunch of like-minded people who like to dress up, pretend to be historical characters and provide varying degrees of entertainment and education.

Occasionally we do get event requests where the organisers specify a "deact's only" rule which we see as unworkable as our members have to shell out up to £1000 just to turn up properly dressed and equipped. It is asking a lot of people to spend several hundred pounds on acquiring a certificate and a period rifle and then telling them having to acquire a butchered rifle.

All the more reason for promoting inert replicas

I personally own 2 deactivated SMLE's which originally had pitted and worn barrels so had seen long service lives. I need these for educational displays with members of the public and in schools.

Notwithstanding the fact that they could probably be re-barrelled and restored..... If you are giving a rifle that would have been scrapped a "second life", then good for you.

[HH1]

I remember seeing a superb and boxed 4(T) that had belonged to a Vicar, he apparently sold up as being too old and it was promptly de@ctivated. Same complay had a couple of SA stamped MN's, they were in fine condition, crisp triggers yet ruined for ever. Fit only for fence posts and fire wood.

It was absolutely criminal and the 'person' selling them told me they had just sold an all original and boxed L42A1 for cash a few minutes before, he was delighted as they it had only come back from the Proof house the week before. Even our Police forces are starting to take a reasoned view on firearms of historical interest that are handed in.

I'm with you on this! At the end of the day we are "custodians" of these old rifles. My Dad currently has several .303 Lee Enfields that he shoots at the MOD range..... he is 82 next month. They aren't making anymore of these classic rifles. When the time arrives these will come to me and I will ask to have them added to my FAC so that I can enjoy them going "bang"... If I did need to sell them I would want them to go to someone who can actually shoot them at the range.... not butchered

[GeeRam]

I remember seeing a superb and boxed 4(T) that had belonged to a Vicar, he apparently sold up as being too old and it was promptly de@ctivated.

Sounds similar to this one for sale as well

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/lee-enfield-no ... les/807417




Mind you......I'm grateful that I kept the de-act No.5 that I bought 20 years ago as it has a desirable long butt fitted and the live firer No.5 I've recently purchased has a short one fitted - so butt swap will be in order, so one old de-act at least has enhanced a live firer

[GeeRam]

20th Century conflict reenactors are the ones who drive the deact market, specifically the WW2 mob.
My Great War group (The Birmingham Pals) prides itself in the high number of Firearm Certificates held by the membership, this is possible due to a long standing good relation with both west mids and Staffordshire police and occasional words of advice from a friendly FEO from another force.

That wasn't the case with the WW2 mob as you put it, back in the 90's when I was doing living history events. I was in 1st AB Recce LHA and 43rd Recce LHA and in 1st AB Recce a good number of the guys had FAC's, enough to hold a yearly unit marksmanship event at Bisley. We had very close ties with the Army in 43rd Recce which on rare occasions gave us access to play with some nice historic stuff on Army ranges After I left 43rd Recce, the group was taken over by a then current serving Police firearms officer, and he was trying to encourage the guys to get FAC's. It's not easy for a lot of people, especially if you live in digs/rented accomodation/shared property etc as a lot of them did back then, and I guess still do.

However, that was 15-20 years ago, and times and groups have changed, as well as events and event insurance requirements etc.

I still maintain that the shooting community could do more to promote and encourage into the shooting fold those that do living history/re-enactment.

[HH1]

I can't help but wonder, once the new rules are in place if the police will do random checks at Game Fairs? They may also insist that any deacts used for re-enactments meet the new standards in case a rifle is stolen from a public event.