Question for the gun smiths

[HALODIN]

That isn't a UK governing body nor is it a description by the manufacturer, it says "classified as a flash suppressor by the BATF FTB", they have no jurisdiction in the UK, so their definition doesn't matter. Let me put it this way, it came from a dealer that you wouldn't question and I have complete confidence they did their due diligence before selling it to me. So I'm sure someone somewhere has already made a ruling on this particular item, otherwise it wouldn't have been advertised on their site.

Yes if anyone ever questions it, I can fight my corner.

[TattooedGun]

I googled, and I know exactly where you got it from, he seems to be the only person selling it in the country - at least, he was on certain straight pulls. but I disagree that the manufacturer is not selling it as a flash suppressor it's the most prominent name aside from the product code on the page on their website.

I'm sure Paul would have done his due diligence, but it's still a grey area, I'd want something in writing from the HO if I had one of those devices specifically mentioning the model and that they believe it is a muzzle break, despite the manufacturers selling it as a flash suppression device.

[TattooedGun]

US PATENT 7,836,809

Flash suppression system
US 7836809

A flash suppression system for increasing the reliability of an autoloading firearm has a body having a central bore including the front opening and a rear opening. The rear opening of the body terminates in a expansion feature having a front opening and a rear opening. The central bore of the body receives the rear opening of a conical element. The rear opening of the conical element is positioned within the central bore of the body to create a gap between the front opening of the expansion feature and the rear opening of the comical element. The front opening of the expansion feature has a larger diameter than the rear opening of the conical element.


US PATENT 8,047,115

Flash suppression system
US 8047115 B2

A flash suppression system for increasing the reliability of an autoloading firearm has a body having a central bore including the front opening and a rear opening. The rear opening of the body terminates in a conical feature having a front opening and a rear opening. The central bore of the body receives the rear opening of a conical element. The rear opening of the conical element is positioned within the central bore of the body to create a gap between the front opening of the conical feature and the rear opening of the conical element. The front opening of the conical feature has a larger diameter than the rear opening of the conical element.

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

Flash suppressors are devices attached the muzzle of a rifle or other firearm that reduce the visible signature of the burning gases that exit the muzzle. This is useful from a tactical standpoint because it reduces the chance of the shooter's position will be given away and reduces the chance that the shooter will be blinded in dark conditions.

Early rifle designs tended to have longer barrels the modern assault rifles. The beneficial side effect of the long barrel is that the propellant is completely burnt before the bullet leaves the barrel, usually resulting in only a p**f of smoke being emitted from the muzzle. With the advent of shorter rifle barrels, the bullet often leaves the barrel before the powder is completely consumed. The still burning powder emits a bright flash when it exits the muzzle. Since essentially all modern infantry weapons have short barrels with this problem that limits their use in night combat, flash suppressors are almost universally used on these weapons currently.

Flash suppressors reduce the muzzle flash from a firearm by diverting the incandescent gases resulting from firing the weapon to the sides, away from the shooter's line of sight. This also reduces the flash that is visible to the enemy. Slots, tubes, and/or holes in the outside body of the flash suppressor divert the gases and reduce or eliminate the flash by rapidly cooling the gases as they leave the end of the barrel. Although the overall amount of burning propellant is unchanged, the density and temperature greatly reduced, along with the brightness of the flash.

Previous flash suppressors have not been entirely satisfactory in hiding the flash because of unconsumed propellant exiting the suppressor and continuing to burn. Prior art flash suppressors are not easily removed, cleaned, and reassembled. Furthermore, previous flash suppressors do nothing to improve the function of the host weapon's autoloading capabilities.

It is therefore an object of this invention to provide a flash suppression system that generates increased backpressure for more reliable operation of gas-operated firearms.

[HALODIN]

The US patent and how it's sold in the US is irrelevant here. It was sold as a brake, I bought it as a brake and it performs as a brake. The dealer has an excellent reputation and it was bought in good faith. You're making something out of nothing IMO.

[HALODIN]

In addition to this my local RFD didn't request it was explicitly added to my FAC either, so that's 4 RFD's that agree it's brake...

[TattooedGun]

The US patent and how it's sold in the US is irrelevant here. It was sold as a brake, I bought it as a brake and it performs as a brake. The dealer has an excellent reputation and it was bought it good faith. You're making something out of nothing IMO.

Not really, not if the item was designed as a flash suppression device, as in the US patents - it wouldn't take a genius lawyer to draw parallels between the US patent of what the device is designed to do and what it's sold as.

I'm not trying to be an arse, but you can't write on a forum "oh it's okay because I have one" if the law states categorically that that type of device should be regulated.

You're obviously willing to put your FAC on the line for it, but I wouldn't put mine on the line from your say so because you bought one.

I could go out and buy an AK47 illegally from some back street and claim that I didn't know I was doing any wrong, and the guy that sold it me said it was okay. I wouldn't be spared legal recourse due to good faith and a good reputation.

I've stated what the law says on it, and I've drawn big enough parallels to how it is sold, designed, patented in its country of origin for it to be considered covered by the legislation provided.

IF, and it's a big if you have mistakenly been mis-sold an item you shouldn't have - you've effectively incriminated yourself in a public forum, and done the same to the seller.

As I said previously I'm sure the seller did their due diligence on the item before selling it in this country, so it might be a moot point. But you haven't satisfied me that it is okay by the Home office. All you have provided me with is your good faith in the seller that sold it to you and some other RFD's that have not questioned it.

[HALODIN]

But you've managed it anyway. 4 RFDs and my FEO have all seen the BRAKE and are all convinced it's a BRAKE, but a man on the internet insists I need to convince him. Sorry I haven't got the time or the inclination.

I'm not trying to be an arse

[TattooedGun]

But you've managed it anyway. 4 RFDs and my FEO have all seen the BRAKE and are all convinced it's a BRAKE, but a man on the internet insists I need to convince him. Sorry I haven't got the time or the inclination.

I'm not trying to be an arse

That's fine. I don't really care either way because I'm never likely to get one. By all accounts they're only any good on short rifles and I'm not interested in short rifles.

I've seen some pretty shambolic FEO's, the HMIC just put out a new report showing the shortfalls of them and the licensing department too. Let's hope with the shake-up you don't get an overzealous FEO visit at some point and take the viewpoint I've presented.

After all it all comes down to interpretation - but I've given a very solid account of how it could be interpreted to be a licensed part. That's not to say it's sec 5 and disallowed, but it could in the right (or wrong) circumstances see you held on a firearms offence which as we all know carry a min. 5 year mandatory sentence.

I just want to make sure people know all the facts before they dive in.

If anyone got one unlicensed and it was supposed to be licensed as I've described, the chances are nothing would ever happen ever anyway. But it's always worth knowing the law and legislation regarding something before considering to buy it. It's clear, at least to me, that this is a grey area.

[HALODIN]

You haven't presented any facts that are relevant to this item in the UK, not one. What you seem to have is too much time on your hands and some interest in projecting your opinion as fact. You also seem content to cast aspersions about 4 RFD's and my FEO, because your ego tells you they're wrong and you're right. The odds are stacked against you.

You seem like a decent bloke, but on this issue you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. If someone believes I have broken the law, then I'll see them in court.

I just want to make sure people know all the facts before they dive in.

[TattooedGun]

You haven't presented any facts that are relevant to this item in the UK, not one. What you seem to have is too much time on your hands and some interest in projecting your opinion as fact. You also seem content to cast aspersions about 4 RFD's and my FEO, because your ego tells you they're wrong and you're right. The odds are stacked against you.

You seem like a decent bloke, but on this issue you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. If someone believes I have broken the law, then I'll see them in court.

I just want to make sure people know all the facts before they dive in.

I'm sorry you think that posting the wording to the legislation is not a fact.

I'm also sorry that you think that because an apple is sold as an orange in this country it somehow makes it an orange when it is clearly an apple.

I am quite clearly playing devils advocate, and as stated likely nothing will ever come of it either way. I haven't projected my opinion as a fact, I have merely shown a viewpoint that could be taken by those who enforce the law.

you're making a mountain out of a mole hill

It's what I do....

https://soundcloud.com/mygreatafflictio ... a-molehill