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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:07 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:27 am
Posts: 5095
Location: N.W. Michigan
Quote:
so why not let the NRA have their remit and leave the politics to someone else?


And there Dougan lays the problem as I see it. Like it or not mate gun ownership is a political hot potato everywhere and therefore it's the problem of all the shooting organisations, the UK NRA included. If all the shooting organisations adopt the same attitude as you and other like minded NRA members then closing down the sport in the UK is going to be a piece of cake if that's a future agenda.

Sorry to say it Dougan but your attitude smacks of I'm okay Jack not my problem which in itself is a big part of the problem. Basically you want some other organisation to do the fighting for you, you just don't want your beloved NRA to get it's hands dirty. Seriously mate I sit here and read posts like yours and I can't help but shake my head in dismay, some of you folks are your own worst enemies.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:17 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:25 pm
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Location: London
Home club or Range: Bisley (usually)
dromia wrote:
We do have mechanisms in place which our "bodies" support for engagement with the legislators but they are totally ineffectual, just look at the fees debacle in which we were once again shafted, look at the airgun legislation being introduced in Scotland.

Wrong. If they were totally ineffectual a grant would now cost £200+. Today it costs £88 - not a resounding victory, but a victory nonetheless.

Dougan wrote:
I've said a dozen times that not all NRA members (including myself) want the NRA to be political...their constitution is based on 'target shooting'...it's a vital part of shooting in the UK, so why not let the NRA have their remit and leave the politics to someone else?

Because without the politics, there is no target shooting. I understand why the NRA is terrified of political engagement (not least because of the associations with its US namesake) but frankly it's about time the association stepped up to the plate and got stuck in under its own name, rather than wringing its hands and leaving it all to BSSC and the dogs'n'donkeys set.

Like all effective bullies, the police have made their position on gun law virtually unassailable while working hard to deny anyone else the ability to challenge them. If we don't stand up now and seize control of this review to turn it to our advantage, we'll get shafted again.

At least this time it's a nationwide problem and not confined to the wibblings of the Scottish Nazis in their failed state.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:31 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:57 am
Posts: 18073
Location: Sutherland and Co Durham
Home club or Range: The Highlands of Scotland. Cycling Proficiency 1964. Felton & District rifle club. HBSA full voting member. Durham Constabulary Gun Club Catterick. Teesdale Pistol and Rifle club.
The fees was a Pyrrhic victory at best.

There was no sound basis established for the annual fees review agreed by our representatives and no guarantee that £200+ fees wouldn't come in at the next review.

The issues of the fractured Licensing system across police authorities, value for money and actual costs, and the cavalier interpretation of the law and its application by licensing authorities hasn't been addressed.

The deal was done based on the fear that labour might have won the election.

The whole issue of fees and why we pay to be certificated in the first place has never been bottomed, we get no benefit from the fees as shooters. It is brought in a s a public safety issue so why should we pay for it directly?

Doesn't sound very effective to me.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:45 am 
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You should join, the more members it has the greater its voice.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:51 am 
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Location: Sutherland and Co Durham
Home club or Range: The Highlands of Scotland. Cycling Proficiency 1964. Felton & District rifle club. HBSA full voting member. Durham Constabulary Gun Club Catterick. Teesdale Pistol and Rifle club.
The voice is useless unless there is the will to exercise it, the NRA lacks that will.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:18 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:06 am
Posts: 336
Location: Near Edinburgh
Home club or Range: Vintage Arms Scotland. Full voting HBSA member
An interesting debate. I have been a member for years even though I live and shoot in Scotland. At first the membership got me reduced fees when I shot 3 times a year at Bisley, so if you are a competitor just look at it in financial terms. Then a club member had problems with the police which the NRA sorted out for him. I thought that was worth the money. However it was clear that things were not right and the poor response to Hungerrford showed that. The sport was divided and the 'Old Buffers' did not step up to the plate. The response to Dunblane was worse, although with a General election coming up, I doubt any organisation would have done much better. They hit bottom when they were shafted over the Manchester Commonwealth Games. I almost gave up on them but have to say I think they are at last beginning to turn. It's odd little things such as the revamped 'Rifleman' with pictures of people with LBRs and Gallery Rifles on the cover, the change of voice when you get their recording asking you to enter the extension you want that show they have at least stopped thinking that TR is the be all and end all of everything.
At the moment I belong to a club that has MAJOR problems which I cannot and will not go into. The next few months will demonstrate to me if NRA is worth supporting. So far I am quietly confident that it will be. Having spoken briefly to the Chief Executive I have to say I find him quite impressive as he made it clear to me that he knows that the NRA have to been seen to do things OUTSIDE Bisley. The new Regional Manager has just started so all I think we can say at the moment is watch this space and let's hope it's not another false dawn.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:48 pm 
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Posts: 3115
Location: Barnsley
Home club or Range: Thurnscoe Rifle Club
I'd be more interested in joining if the NRA fees weren't there to develop Bisley, instead of the profits from Bisley being used to develop UK shooting. The 2 should be completely separate, robbing Peter to buy Paul a new toilet block is never right. If you want to shoot at Bisley, join the "Bisley Club" or an affiliate, the same as most other ranges.
The NRA should exist solely to develop UK shooting (Hence the National bit), both technically (competitions, training etc.) and legally, by promoting shooting and competition UK wide and by protecting our sport and their paying member's interests with one unified voice.
I can see they're making a little headway, partnering with F4I to promote Target/Practical shotgun, but F4I were already making headway on their own and have probably only added Bisley to their calendar as a result.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:06 am
Posts: 336
Location: Near Edinburgh
Home club or Range: Vintage Arms Scotland. Full voting HBSA member
It's an interesting point and one that think could be made to the NRA this year or next. Do you have two or three levels of membership? NRA Basic / NRA Regional User / NRA Bisley user or something similar. I cannot go into details but they are very aware of the need to get someone based well away from Bisley who can demonstrate that the NRA are DOING things away from Bisley. There have been false dawns in the past but I think the next 2 years will be critical and we will know by July 2017 if the NRA is truly national. Having said that give them a chance and if you can try to get to one of the big meetings be it the Phoenix Imperial or Trafalgar. If you have never been to Bisley it is worth a look. Don't intimidate yourself if you are a first time visitor or are new to shooting there. I found the staff and other shooters friendly and helpful. If you shoot 'Classic Rifle' the Trafalgar meeting in Oct is well worth a visit.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:33 pm
Posts: 748
Location: Wolverhampton
Home club or Range: stourport
The NRA has two sources of income: membership fees and Bisley. In the past, Bisley has been so ineptly run that it has soaked up the membership fees and there has been no surplus cash to do anything for the regions.
Bisley is now profitable, It still needs further investment to bring it up to spec, but it is generating a surplus. Staff have been appointed to look into regional activities and ranges and we are all waiting to see how effective this effort can be.
What would you have done differently?
Fred


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:40 pm 
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Location: Near Edinburgh
Home club or Range: Vintage Arms Scotland. Full voting HBSA member
Well said Fred

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