Ok, I promised info on that CT system and here it is

[Outsider]

Me, I'm pinning my hopes on the CMR 30 thing. Honestly, how hard would it be to ask Kel-Tec to just weld some flash suppressors onto them, extending the barrel that extra two inches?

[Sixshot6]

Me, I'm pinning my hopes on the CMR 30 thing. Honestly, how hard would it be to ask Kel-Tec to just weld some flash suppressors onto them, extending the barrel that extra two inches?

I thought the exact same thing, get badgering rude fat dog as he was on about trying to bring a uk legal KSG which due to uk shotgun laws would be pointless. All the have to do to make the CMR 30 legal is weld a brake or hider on to give it two extra inches. But I do like shooting 223 so a new system that's a bit more affordable (it can be done) and gives us AR type mounting would be nice. Hell there are even brave souls here who would like a 308 version. I reckon once a certain formerly harrogate based company gets things fully together in the US it should happen, I also know of one other so keep an eye out. I would like the CMR 30 though.

[Swamp Donkey]

The definition of 'self loading' is where the rifle uses the energy created by the firing of a round, to extract the empty case, and load a fresh one.

Lever release and mars only use the energy to extract/eject (and technically 'load up' the recoil spring), then 'you' have to do a separate action to close the action to chamber a fresh round.

Easy enough to do with a standard semi auto/self loader AR, by fiddling with the bolt hold catch, but because it's easy to modify back to standard, that's why we can't have them like that, and need a system that is tamper-proof.

Now, 'if' you could store some of the propellant gasses in a small cylinder, with a separate manually activated valve to then allow the gasses to cycle the action, it would still be sec5, as it is still ejecting and chambering using the energy created by firing. But, if you had a small dive cylinder etc, and a manual valve to allow the compressed air to cycle the action, it's possibly ok.

Csr matches won't be the same with everyone wearing dive cylinders though

[Sixshot6]

The definition of 'self loading' is where the rifle uses the energy created by the firing of a round, to extract the empty case, and load a fresh one.

Lever release and mars only use the energy to extract/eject (and technically 'load up' the recoil spring), then 'you' have to do a separate action to close the action to chamber a fresh round.

Easy enough to do with a standard semi auto/self loader AR, by fiddling with the bolt hold catch, but because it's easy to modify back to standard, that's why we can't have them like that, and need a system that is tamper-proof.

Now, 'if' you could store some of the propellant gasses in a small cylinder, with a separate manually activated valve to then allow the gasses to cycle the action, it would still be sec5, as it is still ejecting and chambering using the energy created by firing. But, if you had a small dive cylinder etc, and a manual valve to allow the compressed air to cycle the action, it's possibly ok.

Csr matches won't be the same with everyone wearing dive cylinders though

Once again back to the MARS and Lever release systems (and anything along those lines). They're made to have a separate action and are designed to be tamper proof (as much as can be, nothing is ever permanent, I think the test used is that if it requires more than house hold tools and the requirement of some engineering knowledge, its gtg. At the end of day thats what Scott covered. He had it manufactured new, he messed around to make sure no basement tinkering could do the job and it works. The Dive Cylinders idea is why MARS/Lever release/anything similar that requires two actions is what we'll have to use. I struggled to see how it wouldn't be not called a semi auto in the US this system, though the CT gunsmith I talked with said that the state of CT has no definition so defaults to a definition laid out in the NFA act of 1934 and it seems to say using trigger (and he's read it to state action staying closed until trigger released avoids it being semi, for us, its not going to fly though).

I can never apologize enough for the disappointment also.

[Blackstuff]

what if the trigger had no spring on it, and you had to physically move it back forward?

I was thinking about that. And then how about having a loop on the front of the trigger you could insert your finger into so that you didn't have to push from behind the trigger, but rather push forward on the loop....

The definition of 'self loading' is where the rifle uses the energy created by the firing of a round, to extract the empty case, and load a fresh one.

I've never heard a police/legislative definition that referenced where/the energy to cycle the action comes from?

In S5 of the 1968 Firearms Act automatic fire is defined as;

"any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger;"

Which could easily be changed to define semi-auto as "any firearm which is so designed or adapted that a missiles can be discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger"

The General Licences which permit the killing (by shooting and other means) of certain wild birds defines semi-autos as follows;

“Semi-automatic weapon” means any weapon which is not prohibited by section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968 (as amended) ...... where the depression of the trigger discharges a single shot and reloads the next, each subsequent shot requiring a further depression of the trigger."

In fact if you were to use a strict intepretation the General Licence definition the CT rifle would NOT be S5 as it only references depression of the trigger, not release. So the police would have to wrangle a definition of the words/action 'depression of the trigger' to make it S5.....

Probably a bridge too far though.