Dragunov vs Sennybridge "F" range vs 6x42 POSP scope

[snayperskaya]

Very doubtful you will find a 1pn59 scope as they are current Russian military issue and forbidden from export.For what you want I think you will need a siderail Weaver mount and a "Western" scope, but you will struggle to get a 54r bdc turret I would imagine.Not all POSP scopes have 54r bdc turrets either, the giveaway is the spacing of the numbers on the turret.If they are all evenly spaced and go from 0-20 it is a generic turret.
Weirdly when I bought my first Dragunov it had a POSP 8x42vd scope on it, whilst it was a very good scope I replaced it with the original milspec PSO-1 I have......and found I could shoot much more accurately with the 4x PSO-1 at all ranges than I could with the 8x POSP!!!.I put this to the guy that runs the russianoptics.net website and he said he had found exactly the same thing with his Dragunov.One piece of advice I took from him was to shoot nothing but the Dragunov/PSO-1 combo for about 12 months and get to know it inside out at all ranges and weather conditions and that one piece of advice has really paid off.At Sennybridge I can hit consistently out to around 700m with the PSO-1, and allowing for windage is becoming second nature now.If it helps I have a translated windage chart for a PSO-1 (POSP will be much the same as the windage turret is calibrated the same) that gives the correction in numbers of clicks for each 100m of range when using 150gr ammunition.

How do you find the PPU in yours?, my two don't like it and the group sizes are larger with PPU than standard 150gr Russian milsurp.

[meles meles]

Hmmm, maybe you should lay on a masterclass for all us comrades who have seen glorious light of the products of the Ulanov Tractor Plant no. 5 !

[snayperskaya]

Hmmm, maybe you should lay on a masterclass for all us comrades who have seen glorious light of the products of the Ulanov Tractor Plant no. 5 !

Maybe not Comrade, I still have a lot to learn and am certainly no expert and it has taken a lot ot practice to get to grips with the Dragunov........some days I'm like the
World 500m Flinching Champion!.

[froggy]

maybe you should lay on a masterclass for all us comrades who have seen glorious light of the products of the Ulanov Tractor Plant no. 5 !

+1,

[nickb834]

Very doubtful you will find a 1pn59 scope as they are current Russian military issue and forbidden from export.For what you want I think you will need a siderail Weaver mount and a "Western" scope, but you will struggle to get a 54r bdc turret I would imagine.Not all POSP scopes have 54r bdc turrets either, the giveaway is the spacing of the numbers on the turret.If they are all evenly spaced and go from 0-20 it is a generic turret.
Weirdly when I bought my first Dragunov it had a POSP 8x42vd scope on it, whilst it was a very good scope I replaced it with the original milspec PSO-1 I have......and found I could shoot much more accurately with the 4x PSO-1 at all ranges than I could with the 8x POSP!!!.I put this to the guy that runs the russianoptics.net website and he said he had found exactly the same thing with his Dragunov.One piece of advice I took from him was to shoot nothing but the Dragunov/PSO-1 combo for about 12 months and get to know it inside out at all ranges and weather conditions and that one piece of advice has really paid off.At Sennybridge I can hit consistently out to around 700m with the PSO-1, and allowing for windage is becoming second nature now.If it helps I have a translated windage chart for a PSO-1 (POSP will be much the same as the windage turret is calibrated the same) that gives the correction in numbers of clicks for each 100m of range when using 150gr ammunition.

How do you find the PPU in yours?, my two don't like it and the group sizes are larger with PPU than standard 150gr Russian milsurp.

I'm really happy with the 6x42 POSP - except for not being able to see that small target / where the shots fall at that distance. That's largely because it's a pillbox built out of tyres and there's no visible splash and the target is a football size plate that blends into the back ground. Mine has the BDC turrets and it's pretty bang on for PPU ammo (182gn IIRC) at distances 100m to 675, equally the moving reticule I quite like - it doesn't appear off centre to me either which is a bonus.

I've been looking at all the info I can find on scopes appropriate for the SVD side rail (dragunov.net / dragonov.org.uk / russianoptics.net / zenit-belomo.by etc) so I've read up on something like 30 diffferent scopes that are available, but out of that list there's less than 8 I can find with BDC and as you say the 1p59 is going to be nigh on impossible to get hold of.

With regards group size - the S&B ammo (174gn IIRC) I have shot was better than the PPU (182) but the S&B brass was cr4p as other people have reported - the odd split neck for eg which I just don't get with the PPU brass.

When I first got the rifle and with S&B ammo it grouped something like 9" at 300 metres, whereas with the PPU it grouped somethign like 12" at the same distance. The milsurp I shot was from a friends can and I can't recall what weight it was but it grouped something like 18" from memory. Now I'm more comfortable with the rifle I'd expect that I could do much better group wise - using my Fig 12 example at 675 metres (Sennybridge F range - target to the right between tyres, not the one in the pillbox) then it's at worst grouping 24" at that distance given I can knock it down every time.

Whilst these figures sound terrible (they really are) consider that:

1) they're so bad I'm not likely to be making them up - and that I'm not claiming it's a 1 MOA rifle
2) I've shot something like 400 rounds tops out of this setup of 3 different types
3) This rifle is my sum total experience shooting fullbore at any kind of distance since I left the Army in 2000
4) my last two outings with it have been to Sennybridge where I can't get a feel for groupsize given it's a SARTS range.
5) for it's intended purpose, as a DMR with a standard shooter - you'd have to say it's achieving exactly what it should - hitting man size targets easily (as long as they're not in a pillbox!).

I'll be happy enough if this turns out to be a 2 MOA shooter.

I haven't shot for groups beyond 300m yet (opportunity hasn't presented itself yet) but I'll report back when I do.

[froggy]

It doesn't not have that nice stadiametric range finder, but wouldn't this Mdl fit the bill for your requirements of stretching to 675 meters ?
You get a lowish bowl for most of your shots (I don't like over powered optics) with the possibility to stretch to a 10x magnification and an idependent BDC ?

http://www.npzoptics.com/catalog/day_sights/po5-10h40/

[nickb834]

It's an intersting scope for sure, I may have to forego the BDC and work out the drops myself and thereafter mark the turrets myself for distance.

With that in mind, I'll look to see if I can find one of the 4-12x scopes with a 42 objective - something like this (but I'd prefer it to be one of the early style - I'm so awkward):

http://www.zenit-belomo.by/index.php/en ... 12x42.html

[snayperskaya]

It's an intersting scope for sure, I may have to forego the BDC and work out the drops myself and thereafter mark the turrets myself for distance.

With that in mind, I'll look to see if I can find one of the 4-12x scopes with a 42 objective - something like this (but I'd prefer it to be one of the early style - I'm so awkward):

http://www.zenit-belomo.by/index.php/en ... 12x42.html

The Soviet military standard for the Dragunov was approximately 1 to 1.25 MOA with 7N1 150gr sniper ammunition, if it grouped bigger than that with 7n1 the rifle was returned to the armoury for repair.Accuracy goes to 2-4 MOA with standard 54r light ball, which is pretty much machinegun ammo. If you are hitting consistently out to 650-700m it's doing exactly what it's designed to do, centre of mass shots on a man sized target,not precision shots at extreme range .Soviet/Russian Dragunov equipped marksmen rarely engage targets beyond 700m anyway, thats how they are trained.

If you go for a POSP with a generic (0-20) elevation turret here are the figures to use it as a 54r Bdc


Existing turret markings (0-20) are in standard units for shooters using the POSP on firearms not chambered for 7.62x54R. The markings correlate for 7.62x54R BDC:
'2' means 100 m
'3' means 200 m
'4' and click means 300 m
'6' means 400 m
'8' means 500 m
'10' means 600 m
'13' means 700 m
'16' means 800 m. In this position you use the top chevron for shooting at 800 m, the chevrons below mark 900, 1000, 1100 and 1200 meters accordingly.

As for the target in the pillbox,you could try calling in a Hind or Frogfoot to take it out

[froggy]

On the 1P21 , how do you estimate the distance to the target ? I think you told me before it is by using the with of the target ? The little box is theoretically also used as a range finder & the aiming point the top chevron ?

[snayperskaya]

On the 1P21 , how do you estimate the distance to the target ? I think you told me before it is by using the with of the target ? The little box is theoretically also used as a range finder & the aiming point the top chevron ?

The little box has a small horizontal line below it, from the horizontal line to the top of the box at covers a 1.5m high target (why the Russians went for a 1.5m target on the 1pn21 and a 1.7m one on the PSO-1 I don't know), so you turn up the zoom until the targets feet are approx on the horizontal line and the top of their head is on the top line of the box and the numbered zoom setting around the outer edge of the image field gives you the range and then use the top chevron as your point of aim.It doesn't have to be perfect as you are going for a centre mass shot and the Russians tended to double tap in order to get the best chance of hitting and downing the target as quickly as possible, especially when on a battlefield with multiple targets.
The 4-12x42 1pn21 version differs from the 3-9 version in that it has a small chevron above the main aiming chevron that is used to zero the scope at 100m with the zoom/range setting on "4", this then gives a 400m zero when using the main aim point.The small 100m zero chevron can also be used as an aim point for closer range targets and I have used this to drop fig11s' out to around 350m with no real difference in point of impact, certainly well within centre of mass.

Thinking about it and it's just a thought I suppose a 1.5m high rangefinder makes sense in that most soldiers would be moving around a battlefield crouched forward and keeping their heads down a bit, rather than walking tall with their head held high if that makes sense.