Dorset PCC admits his force has lost control of FAC fees

[daman]

Fair point, Mr Badger.

The forum software doesn't seem to let me go back and edit the post though, so my mistake will remain for posterity.

[SevenSixTwo]

...to exercise your right to own a firearm.

Some might argue that only applies to Sect 2 "shotgun".

[Gaz]

Don't forget he's only listing the income as if they were all grants, seeing as in a 5 year period he'll be doing far more renewals than grants and renewals will be far less work (and less income) also he's not including income from variations.

Indeed he isn't.

I'm doing some more digging. This character's spouting obvious cobblers and I think his local paper should know that - instead of gormlessly copying and pasting the letter into their website...

[meles meles]

...to exercise your right to own a firearm.

Some might argue that only applies to Sect 2 "shotgun".

We are surrounded by the ignorant and deceived, and those who seek to maintain that status quo.

[Blackstuff]

Obviously simplifying, ignoring transport costs and a few clerical staff, but:

14500 licences per year @ £88 each = a pot of £1276000

253 working days a year = you need under 60 processed per day (57)

assuming an FEO can do 3 interviews a day = 20 FEOs
£1276000 / 20 = £63800 per annum each

Lets say only 2 per day = 30 FEOs
£1276000 / 30 = £42533 per annum each

Lets say 1 per day = 60 FEOs
£1276000 / 60 = £21266 per annum each

So it's tight, but hard to see how he needs another £250K pa

Dorset has 72,500 FAC holders?? (14,500 x 5 years renewal cycle). If there are 14,500 FAC holders that would be 2900 renewals per year average

[TattooedGun]

Obviously simplifying, ignoring transport costs and a few clerical staff, but:

14500 licences per year @ £88 each = a pot of £1276000

253 working days a year = you need under 60 processed per day (57)

assuming an FEO can do 3 interviews a day = 20 FEOs
£1276000 / 20 = £63800 per annum each

Lets say only 2 per day = 30 FEOs
£1276000 / 30 = £42533 per annum each

Lets say 1 per day = 60 FEOs
£1276000 / 60 = £21266 per annum each

So it's tight, but hard to see how he needs another £250K pa

Dorset has 72,500 FAC holders?? (14,500 x 5 years renewal cycle). If there are 14,500 FAC holders that would be 2900 renewals per year average

Following your logic, there are roughly 240 working days in a year (252 Mon-Fridays -bank holidays and -a rather harsh few extra days annual leave, probably more in reality)

2900 Renewals/Grants on average per year as you say/240 working days in a year:

12.08 Renewals or grants per working day that they need to process.

You're gonna have a few people in the office manning paperwork and phones. A couple of fellows off and about doing interviews and relaying the work back to the office typing up their findings.

Theoretically at least saying they would need 4 FEO's to drive round conducting 3 interviews per day So maybe 5 FEO's on payroll to cover sickness and holidays.

A team of 5 in the office as the FEO's assistants inputting data into computers and writing things up for FEO's so they can stay out interviewing, working on one for ones and printing certificates. and of course lets not forget the Chief Officer of police to sign off each certificate. So maybe 2 hours a week to put his signature to a stack of paperwork that has been thoroughly prepared so it's efficient for him.

I fail to see how this system could not be implemented for the given £255,200 Per Year generated by the fee's. £25.5k Per year for those involved. Although maybe more like £20k office staff, £30k FEO. Still, doable. And that's being inefficient... I'm sure my FEO does far more interviews per day...

[Sim G]

Grants and renewals of FACS and SGCs, variations of FACs, change of addresses, change of security provisions, visitors permit sponsors, European paperwork, explosive licenses, land approval, estate licenses, RFD renewals (my local shop had the FEO in there for two days solid), club certificates, abattoirs and other business places such as museums and zoos, revocations of certificates, court appearances, case file and investigation assistance, collection and disposal of deceased's guns and ammo... That's off the top of my head some of what I've known them be involved in.

And considering the number of staff they have, feck me, I don't know how they do it... And they have bore their own cuts like every other dept.

Firearms licensing is only one aspect which is teetering on the edge. Policing as a whole in the UK, likewise, is on the edge. I have no doubt that the Home Secretary, on top of the further cuts announced during the last parliament, has "reforms" planned that will change the face of policing like nothing that has gone before. Most will probably welcome the reforms and "blood letting" and the real scary thing is, the public neither know, nor care. We may look back at today's organised chaos and think these were the good times...

[meles meles]

It's worth ponderin' history, ooman.

Once upon a time, people policed themselves. Saxon England, for example, had a well respected system where each community (village, hamlet, town) was responsible for law and order within its boundaries. If there was a dispute, it was taken to the moot* where both parties put their case forward to be settled by a debate of elders. If a law was infringed, the whole community had their say upon it. Penalties were agreed and imposed communally. There was no need for a police force. If a villain needed to be apprehended the 'hue and cry' was called and all able bodied folk assisted in the hunt and capture of the miscreant. This was true policing by consent and the edicts agreed upon and made at those moots form the basis of English common law to this very day.

Things changed when William the b****** turned up and overthrew the saxon regime. The Normans quickly imposed rule by dictat rather than consent and introduced the constabulari to enforce it. This was policing as a means of oppression. Laws were now made from the top down rather than from the bottom up and the common man very quickly lost his powers of representation and the imposition of communal justice as the shire reeves and later magistrates became the focal point of the legal system.

Fast forward to today. Crime is reportedly at an all time law and our police force seem more concerned with social engineering and politicking than fulfilling and rosey eyed Dixon of Dock Green role, if that was ever their purpose. Maybe we can do without a police force and once more become responsible for ourselves.


Discuss...











* Hence the term 'moot point'

[channel12]

It's worth ponderin' history, ooman.

Once upon a time, people policed themselves. Saxon England, for example, had a well respected system where each community (village, hamlet, town) was responsible for law and order within its boundaries. If there was a dispute, it was taken to the moot* where both parties put their case forward to be settled by a debate of elders. If a law was infringed, the whole community had their say upon it. Penalties were agreed and imposed communally. There was no need for a police force. If a villain needed to be apprehended the 'hue and cry' was called and all able bodied folk assisted in the hunt and capture of the miscreant. This was true policing by consent and the edicts agreed upon and made at those moots form the basis of English common law to this very day.

Things changed when William the b****** turned up and overthrew the saxon regime. The Normans quickly imposed rule by dictat rather than consent and introduced the constabulari to enforce it. This was policing as a means of oppression. Laws were now made from the top down rather than from the bottom up and the common man very quickly lost his powers of representation and the imposition of communal justice as the shire reeves and later magistrates became the focal point of the legal system.

Fast forward to today. Crime is reportedly at an all time law and our police force seem more concerned with social engineering and politicking than fulfilling and rosey eyed Dixon of Dock Green role, if that was ever their purpose. Maybe we can do without a police force and once more become responsible for ourselves.


Discuss...


* Hence the term 'moot point'

But we retained the essential elements of the Saxon legal process in that we have trial by jury or trial before magistrates. Your guilt or otherwise is determined not by a judge but by 12 ordinary people picked at random. They listen to the evidence and the judge gives them advice on the points of law. If he misdirected the jury the verdict can be overturned. Magistrates are picked from the local community, they give their time to serve and they are not legally trained but are advised by a legally qualified clerk of the court. And before you say I've known a few "working class" magistrates.

English Common Law developed from the King's judges travelling the country to hear trials and making decisions on a case by case basis. These judges compared notes when they got back to London and so used previous decisions in future similar cases.

As a matter of interest the crime of murder is a common law offence not a statutory offence.

[Sixshot6]

Grants and renewals of FACS and SGCs, variations of FACs, change of addresses, change of security provisions, visitors permit sponsors, European paperwork, explosive licenses, land approval, estate licenses, RFD renewals (my local shop had the FEO in there for two days solid), club certificates, abattoirs and other business places such as museums and zoos, revocations of certificates, court appearances, case file and investigation assistance, collection and disposal of deceased's guns and ammo... That's off the top of my head some of what I've known them be involved in.

And considering the number of staff they have, feck me, I don't know how they do it... And they have bore their own cuts like every other dept.

Firearms licensing is only one aspect which is teetering on the edge. Policing as a whole in the UK, likewise, is on the edge. I have no doubt that the Home Secretary, on top of the further cuts announced during the last parliament, has "reforms" planned that will change the face of policing like nothing that has gone before. Most will probably welcome the reforms and "blood letting" and the real scary thing is, the public neither know, nor care. We may look back at today's organised chaos and think these were the good times...

My Brother in laws mum works in Probation and says that is on the brink (she deals with some real f*** ups, one guy tried to burn the place she's down with them all in and he caused a load of damage from what I can tell). Its just being run so incompetently. If the Conservatives are the safe pair of hands, I'd hate to see the unsafe ones.