Chapuis wrote:No Barney, it's not a requirement for all club members to hold a competence certificate only those using M.O.D. ranges.
Strange isn't it that Barney in his work HAS to shoot on MoD ranges, but for fun at the "weekends" he has to have a card..... :roll:
That said, the safe shooter cards were certainly a coup by the NRA. If they hadn't have come up with the idea, then shooting on MoD ranges would have been finished for civilian clubs. And for that, I take my hat off to them.
However, there are aspects to the card that really are unpalletable......
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?
Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
The NRA did a safe shooters certificate course with paper work and training. I attended one of the first instructors courses for it and it was awful. Besides the bad teaching the course is fundamentally flawed as it isn't a safe shooting course/certificate it is a safe target rifle shooting at Bisley course/certificate. Once again another example of the NRA only thinking of Bisley and target rifle and not the wider needs and shooting behaviour of the rest of the country that they still persist in pretending to represent.
I now hear that they are reworking the course in the light of its total inadequancy for anyone who doesn't shoot target rifle at Bisley to make it modular for whatever discipline, which of course makes sense.
No doubt however this will be more expense for the clubs and more income for the NRA/Bisley. Why didn't they get it right first time? Well because the NRA mindset is Bisley centric.
Also I will have to think long and hard before I consider going on another NRA course after the shambles and unprofessionalism of the last one I attended.
Come on Bambi get some
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Before I can even pick up a weapon in my job I have to pass a Weapon Handling test,, which covers clearing the weapon, loading, unloading, magazine loading (timed) making the weapon safe but still loaded, dealing with stoppages, stripping and assembling,,aiming off on targets allowing for the range and windage...we have to do that every 3 months,, we also have to fire and pass the ACMT, (Army Combat Marksmanship Test) this we have to do annualy but we usualy do it twice a year, and we also have pass Judgemental test in accordance with our rules of engagement only after passing those can I lawfully carry a weapon and live ammunition.
I also hold a range management qualification SA (B) 90 RMQ Gained by attending and passing a course run by the SASC School of Infantry,,I can run any range for any unit anywhere in the world in a nutshell,I am told by someone from the NRA I can get that qualification CONVERTED to run concurently with the NRA's RCO's qualification and all I need is a letter from my C.O. Confirming that I can and do run Ranges.
In my private life I hold an open FAC (also a SGC) If I was invited by a civilian Shooting club to shoot on a range that they use which more than likely would be an M.O.D. Range would I have to first be assessed and then issued a certificate before I could join as a full member??? Again I ask as I dont know or at least am not fully aware of the process used by civilian clubs.....that said I have had such an invitation to come along and shoot with my .223 how does it stand??
The weapon handling tests that I refer to have to be held by a qualified small arms Instructor again course qualified by the SASC School of Infantry small arms wing...what quals do the NRA Chairmen and or assessors hold in order to issue these certificates??
Barney a club chairman can only issue certificates for members of his/her own club. If you were invited to shoot on a M.O.D. range as a guest of a club unless you already had a certificate of competence which you could produce you would have to be supervised on a one to one basis. If it were a non M.O.D. range there would be no need for you to produce a certificate of competence.
While various clubs and associations such as the B.D.S. have decided to run training courses so that their members can receive some form of training and assessment only the chairman can state that he considers the member competent not any trainer or assessor. The club chairman is the only person indemnified by the N.R.A. club insurance scheme to certify.
dromia wrote:The NRA did a safe shooters certificate course with paper work and training. I attended one of the first instructors courses for it and it was awful. Besides the bad teaching the course is fundamentally flawed as it isn't a safe shooting course/certificate it is a safe target rifle shooting at Bisley course/certificate. Once again another example of the NRA only thinking of Bisley and target rifle and not the wider needs and shooting behaviour of the rest of the country that they still persist in pretending to represent.
I now hear that they are reworking the course in the light of its total inadequancy for anyone who doesn't shoot target rifle at Bisley to make it modular for whatever discipline, which of course makes sense.
No doubt however this will be more expense for the clubs and more income for the NRA/Bisley. Why didn't they get it right first time? Well because the NRA mindset is Bisley centric.
Also I will have to think long and hard before I consider going on another NRA course after the shambles and unprofessionalism of the last one I attended.
No idea what course you attended as there is no such thing as an NRA safe shooters cert course and I should know. The closest I can come to what you describe is the TR skills course so obv it would be about target rifle as that is what the course is all about!!
We do have other skills courses including the General Skills course which covers (I believe - not done it & not my department) scoped shooting and gallery rifle.
The TR course isn't being re-worked at all what you are probably thinking of is our probationary course. This is now modular so that newbies can choose what type of shooting they want to learn about. We couldn't do this before certification as we had to teach everything to everyone but now they have to have a cert card we can teach as little as just one discipline.
Maybe next time you do a course anywhere, asking the right questions in advance would save you time & effort and then slagging the organisation off for no real reason.
Sorry Heather but I have every reason as the course was crap and I was not the only one to think so. I wrote a long letter afterwards to Phyllis Farnham describing the issues and what I thought should be improved.
The certifcate, badge and patch I received after the course say NRA Club Instructor.
I did say in my post that it was the Instructors course and it was all based around the Safe Shooting Certificate course.
Its a sad day when even the NRA staff are confused about the courses that are run.
I have every reason to slag the course off as I take things as I find them, I would be happy to provide you with a copy of my feedback letter to the NRA about the course and that would clearly show what disaster it was, in the evnt that you are interested.
Come on Bambi get some
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'The NRA did a safe shooters certificate course with paper work and training. I attended one of the first instructors courses for it and it was awful.'
Reading it from my point of view you are saying that you attended a course to instruct for safe shooters certs. That doesn't exist. The Club instructors course is supposed to teach you how to teach others to shoot - basically. It does cover certification in the same way it covers protection of children & vulnerable adults but it is fundamentally a TR instruction course. At the moment I am unaware of any changes to that course but as I'm not in training dept there may be something in the pipeline.
'Safe Shooting Certificate course' no such thing. We run assessment days but that's it.
When did you do the course and, yes, I would like a copy of the letter you sent Phyllis. Did you get an answer?
