Choosing a powder...

[meles meles]

We have a load for the 7mm Rem Mag - 64.3 gn of N560 behind a 175 gn HPBT Sierra Matchking had us shooting .38 MoA. We're just wondering if we should stick with n560 for everything, or if there is some other better powdah out there - 'better' in terms of cost, availability and general usefulness as well as aperformance

[WelshShooter]

I've heard that the 6.5x55 likes a slow burning powder so Ramshot Magnum will serve you fine. I use Ramshot Tac in my .308 and it shoots great, so would be worth working up a load in your 7.62x51. Sadly there's no Ramshot powder loads for 7.62x54R, the only powder on their list is Accurate 4350.

[Watcher]

My only contribution would be to avoid exotic and therefore sometimes unavailable powders. A lot of my shooting pals are serious competitors and are wedded to Varget. While theoretically not an exotic powder its recent non-availability caused major ructions! Accordingly I've tended to stick with Vihtavouri on the basis that its usually easily available. For me access to a zero range is difficult so creating a new load is a pain - hence my desire to have ready access to a standard load.

That said I'm a TR shooter so I make the same load every time. Many shooters enjoy trying different loads so you may want to go down that path and different powders will be part of the fun.

[mag41uk]

If I was reloading badgers cartridges I would be using N140 and N160.
Buy it in 3.5kgs tubs from HPS or where ever.
Relatively cheap and usually easily obtainable.
http://reloadersnest.com/ Obviously use this data at your risk etc!
Also: http://www.lhs-germany.de/en/powder/loa ... -download/
Tony

[Dougan]

Hmmm, but therein lies the confusion. Reloading manuals are full of recipes for lots of powdahs, and we're wondering how best to choose betwixt 'em. One manual we have suggests that we can use Ramshot Magnum, N160 and several others, all for the same bullet but with different charge weights. Ideally, if the powders are interchangeable (albeit with different charge weights) we'd like advice on how to select a powdah, perhaps taking into account factors such as availability, affordability and so on in addition to the outright performance.

Personally I've decided to stick with Vihtavuori - Availability: I find that the ones I need are usually available at trade fairs, and if not my local RFD can order them in within a couple of weeks - Affordability: This may sound daft; but I'd rather spend a couple of hundred quid more a year using the same powder in tried and tested rounds, than mess about with working up new loads just because of a 'good bulk buy' of a different powder - Performance: This (as others have said) will depend on finding the right powder for each caliber, bullet type and weight, and the distance you want to shoot with it.

The 'burn rate' is the main factor in initially choosing which powder you need for each rifle - Ideally you want a burn rate that at the required volume will push the bullet all the way up the barrel at the right rate (not necessarily speed)....for example N140 works well for .308 and .303, but a slower powder (N150 or N160) is needed for the longer narrower barrel of a 6.5 Swedish Mauser.

If you want to compare different burn rates to find a comparable powder for given load data, then most good loading manuals have a 'burn rate chart' which compares all the powdered in one table (very useful if you're going to chop and change powders, or don't have given data for the powder you have) - The Vihtavuori manual has a good chart on the inside cover...you can send for the manual free on t'interwebby.

The other reason I like sticking with Viht powders is their simple numbering system (better for my simple brain) - The pistol powders all start with a '3' and the rifle powders start with a '1', and the rest of the number referrers to the burn rate...so N310 burns faster than N320, which is faster than N330, etc. - I find this makes initial load development easy, as you can find a suitable safe starting load, but then if you find you need a slightly faster or slower burn rate, then you just go down or up a number.

About using N560 for everything - Not practical I'm afraid - Firstly people usually only use double base powders to squeeze a little more velocity out of a round where they've run out of case space/volume - Secondly, for the various rifles and applications you've spoke about before, you will definitely need some different powders...I use (can only speak for myself) N320 (a reasonably fast pistol powder) for the low volumes I use for .357 lever, N120 (a fast rifle powder) for the low volumes I use in my cast boolit loads, N140 (medium rifle powder) for .303 and .308, and N160 (slower rifle powder) for 6.5 x 55.

I'm over simplifying this; so apologies if I'm 'teaching you to suck eggs', but as someone who's only been loading a few years I understand how complicated it can get...

[meles meles]

Oh no squirrel, we haven't sucked any eggs so you've been quite helpful. We've only just started canning our own bangs and selected N560 because that was recommended by the previous owner of our 7mm Rm Mag. Seeing as it shoots .38 MoA with the recommended load we're quite happy with its performance. We were just wondering what else we can paw load with N560, but if appropriate we'll keep the N560 just for the Rem Mag and use other powdahs for our other calibres. We have the following that we will probably reload for:

Rifle calibres: .303" , 6.5x55, 7.5x54, 7.5x55, 7.92x57, 7.62x51 (.308") - all at 300 and 600 mards
Pistol calibres: .44" .45" ACP, 9mm Parabellum - out to 200 mards max
Shotty: 12 bore and .410 slug - white o' Farmer Giles' eyes

We'll stick with spam can surplus for our 7.62x39, 7.62x54R

[Sim G]

We have a load for the 7mm Rem Mag - 64.3 gn of N560 behind a 175 gn HPBT Sierra Matchking had us shooting .38 MoA. We're just wondering if we should stick with n560 for everything, or if there is some other better powdah out there - 'better' in terms of cost, availability and general usefulness as well as aperformance

Personally, I have a couple or three favourite loads for just about all of my CF rifles, utilising different powders and buckets of either different weight and/or manufacturers. This ensures the impact of "shortages" have little effect on my shooting. Watching friends try to locate specific powders or bullets is sometimes akin to junkies looking for a fix.....

[Dougan]

Rifle calibres: .303" , 6.5x55, 7.5x54, 7.5x55, 7.92x57, 7.62x51 (.308") - all at 300 and 600 mards

For up to 600 mards, N140 (or the very similar TR140) would do you for all those apart from 6.5x55, which you would need a slower powder for; like N160...

...there's no reason why you couldn't find a good load using N560 for the 6.5; there is data for them...but it's not necessary for the velocities you'd want for up to 600 in a milsurp.

[meles meles]

Hmmm, and for the pistol calibre carbines? Any recommendations there? And how about when we succumb to shooting cast boolits in the milsurps - do we just carry on using N140 for those too?

[dromia]

Depends on velocities and distances you require.

What does your loading data tell you? I presume that along with you new handloading kit you have got a couple of good handloading manuals (the Lee isn't one).

The best advice given here is good pressure tested published data, a sound understanding of burning rates, reliable availability of powder. The actual make of powder is of less relevance than the burning rate appropriate to your application, personally I look for the correct rate and then see what powders I have in that area the manufacturers label is irrelevant.

I converted to Vhitavuori many years ago as its availability is reliable and the price is good at £55/kg when a few of us get ourselves organised. None of the loads I changed from were any worse with Vihtavuori from the original powders and if I had to change to another brand so long as they had a good spread of burning rates then I wouldn't worry about the label.

In saying that I have a lot of different powders because i enjoy playing about with them and they all have strengths and weaknesses, I like the Ramshot range of powders because they are ball powders and meter very well so would be my go to when I'm using the progressive for 1000 rnd +batches, I tend to stay away from double base high energy powders due to them being hot, but some calibres applications need them (none of mine do).

So you need to understand the job and then choose the appropriate tools.

Internet forum recipes should never be used.

Good data and work up your loads in a safe manner.

What works in one rifle doesn't mean it will work in another.