Another bad press for the shooting community

[Jenks]

black stuff..

In fairness, that is also speculation!

Yes of course it is. I knew it was when I wrote it.

Jenks

[joe]

t/man

Sim is right, without access to to his shotguns he could just as easily used a knife or driven them off the nearby A3 at speed to kill them.

Pure speculation on your part. He didn't choose a knife, or a car he chose to use a shotgun . Had he chosen a knife, one or indeed most women might have survived. in fact the daughter might have been able to over power him he is eighty two.

Jenks

You oviously never comfronted anyone with a knife !!even with martial arts training it's VERY VERY hard to take a knife off someone esp who is hell bent on stabbing you ! One move you get wrong you are potiently dead ! Knives esp the big combat typ ones which carried the most are worse then guns it never runs out ammo no need for prerequisite training and never jambs don't believe the home office stuff about if you carry a knife you most likely to be used against you as with most home office into its bo...cks
If you carry a knife you are more likely to kill someone

[Blackstuff]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9igSoJHEdUo&noredirect=1[/youtube]

Run from a knife, charge at a gun

[joe]

Someone here mationed that there were three reports into handling of Surrey firearms Department are these reports published online ?

[joe]

[quote="Blackstuff"][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9igSoJHEdUo&noredirect=1[/youtube]

Run from a knife, charge at a gun [/quote


Had a mate that worked at the airport was told when doing a course on terrorism that if you see a terrorist off load with a pistol hide someware keep him in view when you see the slide lock back the gun is empty then charge at him and arrest him using reasonable force ! He was a baggage handler

[targetman]

Jenks....you are right, it is pure speculation on my part......but I reiterate, it is not the fault of Surrey Police that the man had a legally held shotgun....they had taken it from him after a complaint, that complaint was withdrawn and his shotgun handed back to him......all right and proper. The point is that the Police cannot make speculations over the likelyhood that he might shoot his family. It is grossly unfair of the relatives to blame the police for his actions......

[Jenks]

t/man

Sim is right, without access to to his shotguns he could just as easily used a knife or driven them off the nearby A3 at speed to kill them.

Pure speculation on your part. He didn't choose a knife, or a car he chose to use a shotgun . Had he chosen a knife, one or indeed most women might have survived. in fact the daughter might have been able to over power him he is eighty two.

Jenks

You oviously never comfronted anyone with a knife !!even with martial arts training it's VERY VERY hard to take a knife off someone esp who is hell bent on stabbing you ! One move you get wrong you are potiently dead ! Knives esp the big combat typ ones which carried the most are worse then guns it never runs out ammo no need for prerequisite training and never jambs don't believe the home office stuff about if you carry a knife you most likely to be used against you as with most home office into its bo...cks
If you carry a knife you are more likely to kill someone

Joe...

You oviously never comfronted anyone with a knife !!

You are correct I haven't! but given the choice of facing an eighty two year old armed with a shotgun or a knife what weapon would you prefer to face? Am I correct in assuming you would choose to face the knife? (I know I would) You may get hacked about a bit but I'm guessing there would be a good chance you might survive. However with the the shotgun I would put the odds squarely in favour of the old man. Of course as pointed out this is all speculation. The old man chose the shotgun because he had one. That too is also speculation it might have been as he said he was walking through the house with a loaded gun on the way out to destroy his dogs and the women nagged him to the point of him losing the plot. The point is he should not have had the option of the shotgun Surrey Police Firearms dept Cocked up big time....IMHO.

Jenks

[Jenks]

Jenks....you are right, it is pure speculation on my part......but I reiterate, it is not the fault of Surrey Police that the man had a legally held shotgun....they had taken it from him after a complaint, that complaint was withdrawn and his shotgun handed back to him......all right and proper. The point is that the Police cannot make speculations over the likelyhood that he might shoot his family. It is grossly unfair of the relatives to blame the police for his actions......

T/man..

but I reiterate, it is not the fault of Surrey Police that the man had a legally held shotgun....

We shall have to wait until we get to read what the two investigating police forces say on the matter. In the mean time we can (all) only speculate.


Jenks

[Gaz]

I'm pretty sure yesterday's TV news said Surrey Police had had two other forces review the decision to return his shotguns and both concluded it was flawed.

[targetman]

Jenks.....put it this way....if somebody, anybody, made a complaint to the police that you had verbally threatened them and they, the police, came and took away your firearms and subsequently that complaint was withdrawn, you would expect your firearms to be retuned to you.....and they should indeed be returned under those circumstances.

Tell me, without the benefit of hindsight, where the difference is in this case...?