ACPO, terrorists, Channel 4 and us

[Gaz]

I managed to get Chief Constable Andy Marsh to reply to a series of questions about the random spot check police campaign, as well as getting some more concrete information about Operation Solitaire. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/26 ... solitaire/

The parts where it says "an ACPO spokesman" is in fact all Marsh, but I didn't tell you that.

[Polchraine]

The "spokesman" says check the warrant card and call the local station for verification ...

So, officers arrive and demand to see my storage.

I ask for their warrant cards and feel they are insufficient proof. So, I take those cards with me, close the door on the visitors and call the local station - which can take 20 minutes.

Will the visitors be prepared to hand over their warrant cards to allow me to have them when I call? Will they be prepared to wait whilst confirmation is obtained? And without the warrant cards I will be unable to obtain confirmation of their identity.

[zanes]

My FEO (on a prearranged visit for a variation) seemed very surprised when I asked to see ID. He seemed slightly confused that I didn't think the police vehicle and uniform wasn't sufficient.

[Sim G]

Kent haven't used constables as FEOs for about 20 years. There's not enough coppers to answer 999 calls, never mind a secondary task. Nor do they use marked cars. Always ask for ID when someone turns up at the door.

That said, if you know your FEO, he turns up in uniform, in a marked car, at a pre arranged appointment and you then ask for his warrant card, how do you think that starts the "working relationship"? All the tea, biccies and friendly chat in the world is going to be an uphill struggle, particularly if looking for a variation that may be a little "wafty".....

[Sim G]

The parts where it says "an ACPO spokesman" is in fact all Marsh, but I didn't tell you that.

Curious, why didn't you name him in the article?

[zanes]

That said, if you know your FEO, he turns up in uniform, in a marked car, at a pre arranged appointment and you then ask for his warrant card, how do you think that starts the "working relationship"? All the tea, biccies and friendly chat in the world is going to be an uphill struggle, particularly if looking for a variation that may be a little "wafty".....

It was also a (pre notified) change in FEO, forgot to mention that.

Obviously if I knew him by sight it would not have been a problem.

[Polchraine]

Kent haven't used constables as FEOs for about 20 years. There's not enough coppers to answer 999 calls, never mind a secondary task. Nor do they use marked cars. Always ask for ID when someone turns up at the door.

That said, if you know your FEO, he turns up in uniform, in a marked car, at a pre arranged appointment and you then ask for his warrant card, how do you think that starts the "working relationship"? All the tea, biccies and friendly chat in the world is going to be an uphill struggle, particularly if looking for a variation that may be a little "wafty".....

The FEO that arrived for my last renewal was in plain clothes - however he was an actual officer in the Met. Chatting with him it turned out that he was normally an armed officer in one of the SO teams.

If I was the officer arriving for a pre arranged appointment, I don't think I would object to being asked for my warrant card. Around here when uniformed officers have arrived following an incident they will often show it without a request.

[Maggot]

That said, if you know your FEO, he turns up in uniform, in a marked car, at a pre arranged appointment and you then ask for his warrant card, how do you think that starts the "working relationship"? All the tea, biccies and friendly chat in the world is going to be an uphill struggle, particularly if looking for a variation that may be a little "wafty".....

It was also a (pre notified) change in FEO, forgot to mention that.

Obviously if I knew him by sight it would not have been a problem.

I politely bollock members of the public for not asking me....mind you I usually look like a sack of s*** anyway tongueout

Funny all this, on suggesting I put a variation in my deputy licensing guys said it was good to hear I had found another angle to my hobby.....cant argue with that.

And Mr Marsh is our Boss.

He is a sporting type himself and I would not expect him to be gunning directly for legit shooters. Quite a few of our FEOs and licensing office folk shoot as well, some for the force clays team.

I don't get a "Ban em all" vibe from any of the licensing lot or the firearms lads (we often chat about hand loading etc). What I do get is slight annoyance that they are always short of resources and that some processes are chargeable while others (taking the same time and resources) are not.

Sometimes I think you need to be in a position to see both sides, Sim is quite right to be (or appear to be) defensive occasionally.

[Gaz]

The parts where it says "an ACPO spokesman" is in fact all Marsh, but I didn't tell you that.

Curious, why didn't you name him in the article?

Short answer - ACPO's press officer said "these statements are attributable to 'an ACPO spokesman'."

Long answer - ACPO's press officer realised he was adding little or no value, effectively being a middle-man between Marsh and I, and turned what I think was a fairly detailed and comprehensive reply to my questions, including some background information on why all this has come about, into quotable chunks for publication only. There was one little snippet I haven't published (which the press officer evidently missed) in which Marsh was clearly writing directly to me, which is why I have this theory.


I have seen a leaflet purporting to come from GMP's firearms licensing department which, in style and tone, comes across as ordering the shooting community to inform on other shooters who "cause you concern". The underlying message is very much "you will do as you're told and grass up your mates or we'll get heavy on you".

If that is the police attitude towards recruiting informants, no wonder the Muslim community feel so alienated by the authorities.

[huntervixen]

I hear from a mate that Lancashire Police have approached a few clubs with a view to arranging an open question and answers meeting with the membership regarding firearms security, domestic terrorism etc.

Now this seems a very sensible, desirable approach to me, it must be a concern to the authority's that some extremists will attempt to infiltrate Shooting clubs to gain access to firearms, play the long game, get an FAC's etc, and we all need to be especially vigilant in these dangerous times.

God knows how many have already returned from Syria, full of hate and with a massive axe to grind, way more than the official figures I wager.

Now a fully open approach, fully engaging with the shooting community and openly explaining what's going on to Club memberships is far the best idea, lets hope this is adopted across the country.