Advice on Buying a No.4

[Daniel11]

Hi All smile2

As I am currently considering buying a Lee Enfield No.4, I was looking for some advice regarding a number of things. Firstly, what effect does being Factory Thorough Repaired (FTR) have on a rifle, are rifles that this have been done to usually better shooters, or just have better appearance? What sort of accuracy can I usually expect from a wartime manufacture rifle that was FTR'd post war (still to mk1 standard). In order to shoot Service Rifle comps with these, is it usually necessary to have a new barrel put on it, or is a reasonably good condition original barrel usually up to the job?
Would be very grateful for any advice regarding this.

Daniel.

[Gaz]

In brief. FTR'd rifles are usually in slightly better nick, shooting wise and cosmetically. Barrel - like any other rifle, it will vary, bear in mind that all barrels are 60 years old and counting. You probably won't need a new one but crown and throat condition will dictate that, horses for courses. I have a shot out takeoff Mk.2 barrel on mine, it still manages 6" at 200yds which is about all I need for now. Factory accuracy was 4MOA or better, most were better.

[huntervixen]

In addition to that fine advise, regarding the throat and crown, if you are buying from a dealer , make sure it gauges well .309 was rejected in service I believe, the closer to .303 it is the better ( obvious really!), also check its in proof (a surprising amount of milsups are kicking about without civilian proof) check for cracks in the recoil face area of the stock, matching numbers.....and the barrel is floating correctly and not being pinched by the woodwork...

Rearlugs will be along to add to or amend the list with his excellent Enfield knowlage base no dought!

Good strong firearms and always fun to shoot....everyone should have one!

[DaveB]

I agree that FTR rifles are usually in better nick, as the rifle has been stripped down and subjected to a stringent visual, gauged and metallurgical examination against the original factory tolerances. The barrel must conform to an 80% new life. It's not new, but often the next-best thing. Of course as to what's happened to it since... well that's the question isn't it?

That's why I tried so hard to get one of the "Irish Contract" No 4 Mk2 rifles when they first became available - mine was 'brand-new' when I got it. It's still only had less than 500 rounds through it.

[Fedaykin]

My advice would be:

"Be careful and take your time", "Don't buy the first No.4 you see".


Remember you are talking about a seventy year+ old rifle. There are many good ones to have still but caution should be exercised when buying a No.4. If in doubt make sure you go with someone who knows their stuff and stick to reputable and well known dealers in Enfield circles.

[DaveB]

Here's an interesting No 4 variant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD85Q1sBYx8#t=83

[Robert303]

What do you want it for?
To 'Collect' in which case marks and numbers along with appearance become all important and you'd better read the 'Bible' by Skennerton
To shoot for fun in which case get the cheapest you can with the best barrel you can find, then once you have played with it you can decide if you want to upgrade.
To go 'pot hunting' in competitions. Now the fun begins. You can wander round trade shows putting bullets into barrels as a 'gauge' just like Mr Numpty at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsNCqqWgZZA
You can hope the very expensive (£800+ when I last looked) 'Still in the wrap XYZ contract' rifle will shoot straight. You can think that High price = good and wonder how some with cheap rifles that seem to have shot out barrels can still outshoot you.

There are no easy answers. Get one that's not too expensive from a dealer that others have recommended or from someone in your club that looks after his gear and do some reading from RELIABLE sources.
Either use good factory ammunition or reload consistently and learn the proper techniques of shooting. If you fancy some old books look for AGs Book of the Rifle by A.G. Banks or for an SMLE the booklet The Service Rifle and how to use it. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention it on this forum but have a look at milsurps.com and the section on the Lee Enfield there are some quite good people on it.

[Gaz]

You can hope the very expensive (£800+ when I last looked) 'Still in the wrap XYZ contract' rifle will shoot straight.

Good point. Those factory fresh rifles were apparently thrown together at full speed and then rushed out of the Fazackerley factory to prevent the numerous trade union strikes of the time from stopping rifles reaching units. Or so Peter Laidler reckons, anyway ... key point is that many of those rifles were screwed together and sealed in the wrap, with the idea being that unit armourers would then set up the bedding once the rifle was issued.

If you fancy some old books look for AGs Book of the Rifle by A.G. Banks or for an SMLE the booklet The Service Rifle and how to use it. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention it on this forum but have a look at milsurps.com and the section on the Lee Enfield there are some quite good people on it.

Have a look for Shoot to Live in the milsurps.com library. It's probably the best work out there on how to shoot the No.4 rifle prone. I've even carried a few of its tips into my target rifle shooting.

[Dougan]

I would definitely agree with going to a reputable dealer that you know and trust.

Me and my father decided that we needed a No.4...he wanted something he could put a 'scope on for club shooting days, and I wanted something I could shoot McQueens with...so a No.4 ticked all the boxes - However it needed to be a 'shooter' with plenty of life left in it, a tidy bolt and action, and a good bore and crown...

...so we contacted Adam (Dromia on here, for those who don't already know him) at Pukka Bundhooks...just over six weeks later we have a lovely Fazakerley No.4 Mk 2...

[Dougan]

...a couple more piccies...

It's a nice example - All matching numbers, including the bayonet.

I contacted Adam as soon as we got our slot...or local RFD was contacted the same day by Adam, and the rifle was there the day after...

...We got a good deal, and the rifle is even better than described...Cheers Pukka Bundhooks :goodjob: :cheers: