ACPO, terrorists, Channel 4 and us

[Gaz]

ACPO have finally got around to posting the minutes of their June meeting online. It only took them nearly four months... http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/cri ... inutes.pdf

I'm halfway through reading them and I've just found this unbelievable snippet.

Being the firm cynic that I am, I read into this that ACPO's Op Solitaire project hasn't had any impact at all and thus they want Channel 4 to come in and whip up some hysteria to tick whatever boxes it is that ACPO's employee in charge needs for his next promotion.

In other news (so far), it also appears that ACPO want those of us with new-style FACs printed before May 2014 to notify each and every purchase of ammunition - and use a failure to do so as an excuse to revoke your ticket. On page 9 we have this:

It was agreed to do nothing and allow the FAC’s issued between 01 January 2014 and the implementation date of the revised SI to run their course and renew at renewal or variation. This would mean that FAC holders may inform the police of the purchase or transfer of ammunition and, if not done, it may appear that the police are condoning the failure to comply with a FAC condition.

In addition, Durham Police seem to have official sanction to try and force clubs to stop using downloaded centrefire ammunition on indoor ranges.

ACPO are also saying that anyone taking an airgun north of Hadrian's Wall will require a visitor's permit which will attract a fee "which is yet to be decided".

[SevenSixTwo]

LOL. Apathy, eh?

Next, they'll be wanting reloading kit licensed and for us to declare ammo produced...

[zanes]

Bad luck if they try and revoke mine for not notifying of ammo purchase- got it in writing from FEO I don't need to.

AND the fees issue rumbles on, for god sake...

[Dannywayoflife]

Man I want to emigrate to the USA!!

[Sim G]

In other news (so far), it also appears that ACPO want those of us with new-style FACs printed before May 2014 to notify each and every purchase of ammunition - and use a failure to do so as an excuse to revoke your ticket. On page 9 we have this:

It was agreed to do nothing and allow the FAC’s issued between 01 January 2014 and the implementation date of the revised SI to run their course and renew at renewal or variation. This would mean that FAC holders may inform the police of the purchase or transfer of ammunition and, if not done, it may appear that the police are condoning the failure to comply with a FAC condition.

Where does it say the police will use non notification of ammo purchases to revoke a certificate? It doesn't. What it says is that there are flaws in the form and that the Home Office are to issue a Statutory Instrument to correct these flaws.

ACPO have agreed to "DO NOTHING". It then goes on to say that FAC holders may indeed inform of ammo transfers. Then it says that it MAY appear that the police are condoning non compliance, whilst waiting for the SI and the FAC's printed with the error to be rectified either on renewal or variation.

Nowhere does it say revoke.

Talk about Channel 4 "whipping up hysteria....." FFS....

[Sim G]

In addition, Durham Police seem to have official sanction to try and force clubs to stop using downloaded centrefire ammunition on indoor ranges.

No there is no "official sanction to try and force clubs to stop using downloaded ammunition" the subject is brought up as an aspect of safety and insurance.

[Sim G]

ACPO are also saying that anyone taking an airgun north of Hadrian's Wall will require a visitor's permit which will attract a fee "which is yet to be decided".

Once again, no. The meeting talks about the possible impact of "ACPO forces", that means the police going to Scotland with an air weapon after the Scottish Governments certification of air weapons comes into force. Likewise, if they do, they will need a visitors permit that attracts an as yet, unknown fee. This is an impact for the police.

It is not about "anyone taking an airgun north of Hadrians Wall", even though it no doubt will effect everyone travelling to Scotland with an air gun. But it's not from that angle...

[Gaz]

Anyone would think you're a copper getting upset at criticism of the police ... oh, wait.

In reverse order -

ACPO forces and airguns. I interpret that as "people from ACPO force areas south of the border". Bearing in mind most of the minutes document is full of spelling mistakes, typos and duplicate text so a bit of interpretation is needed - clearly it was written at speed, probably within the meeting itself. I cannot see why the police would discuss paying themselves for permits in a meeting concerned with firearms licensing. Hadrian's Wall - this is a forum, not a news report. In fairness you're not the first to accuse me of XYZ without realising the difference between the two.

Downloaded ammo - FELWG member presents a paper whose aim is clearly to stop clubs from using downloaded centrefire ammunition by presenting it as a safety concern. FELWG concludes (rightly) that it's an insurance matter, but then goes on to authorise Durham FLD to start ringing up clubs and talking about insurance. If that is not official sanction for an attempt to reduce the use of downloaded centrefire ammo on indoor ranges, by saying "your insurance may not cover this", show me what is. Especially with the police referring to their own range safety folks (and not the NGBs with certification authority for indoor civilian ranges, note) for official advice on how unsafe it might be. Why not refer to the actual certification authority if you want accurate advice from the people who actually sign off these ranges as fit to use?

Again, with requirement to notify ammo transfers - of course it doesn't say "revoke" explicitly. But it does say "if not done, it may appear that the police are condoning the failure to comply with a FAC condition." Non-compliance with conditions is a perfectly good reason to revoke; just because it would seem silly to us for them to do so, doesn't mean it couldn't happen. By the letter of the law anyone with a new-style FAC printed before May 2014 is in breach of conditions for not notifying ammo transfers, until their certificate is reprinted iaw the latest SI.

[JSC]

Is there a reason they bring up Channel 4 specifically as a potential way to get publicity? Why not BBC/ITV or some other media outlet?

[kennyc]

For the record some police forces already condone non compliance with their reluctance to issue section 7 certs when renewals overrun due to their inability to process forms in a timely manner