NRA (lack of )support for non Bisley target shooting

[Alpha1]

?

[bigfathairybiker]

Sorry... :lol:

After reading all those MLA's I went all silly....

It reminded me of:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_aiDDU5z18

Mark

[Chuck]

John MH,

Not that I'm aware of but the need to have a plan backed up by a risk assessment that identifies who foes what and when if there is an accident.

Cheers for that. :cheers:

[David TS]

Ceri

Firstly, thank you for your and the club's efforts on this.

As a Grove club member, having found out in the last few days that our club access to STANTA is blocked for the forseeable future, I have made the decision to join the NRA as an individual member so I can start a polite harassment campaign with messrs Mercer and Robertson, and I urge any other Grove and KLSM members to do the same.

It is ludicrous that our NGB for target shooting is not out there working on our behalf (or, if it is, it doesn't do a better job of communicating with us). If only it were as pro-active as its counterpart across the pond .

David, just to clarify we (Grove & KLSM) still have access to the non 'field firing ranges' on Stanta, the next schedules shoot in this Thursday (21st Aug) on Archers which is not classified as a FFR.

Cad Monkey

Thanks. Ceri did mention in an earlier post that we are only bumped off Great Carr and Robins Lodge, but we still appear to be in the dark as to what the 'moving targets' are, and what actually makes Archers different from the other two (other than the fact it is not classified as a field firing range, but that still puts us in a terminal loop as to exactly what 'moving targets' are!).

[Cad Monkey]

Ceri

Firstly, thank you for your and the club's efforts on this.

As a Grove club member, having found out in the last few days that our club access to STANTA is blocked for the forseeable future, I have made the decision to join the NRA as an individual member so I can start a polite harassment campaign with messrs Mercer and Robertson, and I urge any other Grove and KLSM members to do the same.

It is ludicrous that our NGB for target shooting is not out there working on our behalf (or, if it is, it doesn't do a better job of communicating with us). If only it were as pro-active as its counterpart across the pond .

David, just to clarify we (Grove & KLSM) still have access to the non 'field firing ranges' on Stanta, the next schedules shoot in this Thursday (21st Aug) on Archers which is not classified as a FFR.

From what I understand 'Archers' is classified as a gallery range

Cad Monkey

Thanks. Ceri did mention in an earlier post that we are only bumped off Great Carr and Robins Lodge, but we still appear to be in the dark as to what the 'moving targets' are, and what actually makes Archers different from the other two (other than the fact it is not classified as a field firing range, but that still puts us in a terminal loop as to exactly what 'moving targets' are!).

David
I'm not sure where the term 'moving targets' originated from as the reason we cannot use some of the MOD ranges. The explanation I was given from our club secretary is because the current NRA RCO qualification does not cover us for those MOD ranges classified as 'Field Firing Ranges'. I'm a little unclear what defines a 'FFR' but from what I understand because Archers has dedicated lanes for each shooter it is classified as a Gallery range as opposed to Great Carr and Robins Lodge are open plan (within limits).

[mag41uk]

So how does Stickledown fit into all this as it is also a FFR?

Tony

[rox]

So how does Stickledown fit into all this as it is also a FFR?

It's a FFR with a gallery range in the middle of it.
..

[Racalman]

As John said, clubs using MoD ranges must have a RASP. Ours is modelled on the NRA template, with range-specific detail taken from the Range Orders.

Several of our members have the First Aid at Work qualification and we have comprehensive first aid kits. This is detailed in the RASP and a First Aider for the day is appointed by the Range Officer during the safety brief.

Now can someone clarify this moving target business please. Is it lateral movement (running man) or up/down (ETR/SARTS) or both?

[Cj10]

response from the Training Safety Officer at STANTA, via Landmarc East on his issue:

"Range Officer Qualifications from the NRA are only for fixed ranges. Gt Carr and Robins Lodge are field firing ranges and the NRA qualification does not cover these ranges. We have been running a significant RISK by letting civilians fire on Field Firing ranges and at our recent Range Safety Inspection Team (RSIT) inspection we were advised to stop and only allow civilians onto ranges where they met the qualifications to be RCOs."

Shame the decision is erroneous .

RCO’s are authorised by qualification to conduct live firing on Field Firing/Live Training Ranges when operated as gallery ranges, i.e. from fixed firing positions at defined targets.This is stated in paragraph 1.2 c i of the NRA RCO Instruction Manual. This Manual was approved by the MOD, and any amendments must be approved by the MOD.

Matter is on the agenda for the NRA's Gerneral Council meeting on 5 September.

Ceri

[John MH]

response from the Training Safety Officer at STANTA, via Landmarc East on his issue:

"Range Officer Qualifications from the NRA are only for fixed ranges. Gt Carr and Robins Lodge are field firing ranges and the NRA qualification does not cover these ranges. We have been running a significant RISK by letting civilians fire on Field Firing ranges and at our recent Range Safety Inspection Team (RSIT) inspection we were advised to stop and only allow civilians onto ranges where they met the qualifications to be RCOs."

Shame the decision is erroneous .

RCO’s are authorised by qualification to conduct live firing on Field Firing/Live Training Ranges when operated as gallery ranges, i.e. from fixed firing positions at defined targets.This is stated in paragraph 1.2 c i of the NRA RCO Instruction Manual. This Manual was approved by the MOD, and any amendments must be approved by the MOD.

Matter is on the agenda for the NRA's Gerneral Council meeting on 5 September.

Ceri

It would appear that this does not align with the regulations in Pamphlet No. 21 (Regulations for Training with Armoured Fighting Vehicles, Infantry Weapon Systems and Pyrotechnics), Para 1036 does state that a SA(B)(90) (assuming that is the nearest thing in the Military to an NRA RCO Qualification (although not the same as the course is longer and more comprehensive)) qualified RCO is permitted to plan and conduct practices from the fixed firing point only on a Individual Battle Shooting Range (usually a Field Firing Range).

The problem is the Range Safety Inspection Team are the Subject Matter Experts (SME) and their interpretation of what the NRA Qualification equates too may be different to what the NRA thinks in its manual, whether 'MoD' approved or not. In the hierarchy of documentataion its Pamphlet 21 that will take precedence and not a document that is not authored and controlled by the MoD. There is no mention of Civilian RCO Qualifications in Pam 21 and it clearly states that the rules and procedures for the use of MOD land ranges by organised bodies such as the police, civilian clubs and civilian contractors are contained in JSP 403 Volume 1.

If the MoD SME do not think that the NRA qualification equates to an SA(B)(90) then you would not be covered by Para 1036, remembering of course that this document refers to Military Personnel only.

One for the NRA to pursue with the MoD.