Could cast boolits solve the problem?

[Dougan]

Right just finished them (16, 17 and 18 gns) - Had to finish them tonight as I've got my work leaving do tomorrow (but that's another story)...glad I'm not at the range until the afternoon...

I've only got the chrono for an hour, and have .303s, 6.5s and a few of my first .308 TR rounds to try too...so my main aim is to just get some velocities recorded; and I'll have another session later when I'll concentrate more on groups and fine tuning the loads (all the round I'm testing this time are in whole gn increments and with little variation of seating depth).

Also, despite the M dies working well, I discovered another problem with seating - I got them seated safely, but I don't think perfectly...so these ones may not be as accurate as they could be anyway...

...I'll give you gents a report at the weekend

[Alpha1]

I look forward to your report.

[Dougan]

Went to the Tunnel Range at Charmouth West Dorset - The weekend holiday maker traffic was quite bad and it took longer to get there than Bisley; but was worth the trip...it's an excellent facility, with very friendly and helpful staff - Also shooting down (literaly...there's a 7 m drop) a 100 yard tunnel was a new experience, and it was a very enjoyable afternoon.

It was a bit rushed, and the targets I took were too small to get a good POA with open sights; so group testing went out the window, and I just cracked on to get the velocity readings - I managed to get all the cast loads chrono'd, but then when I tried my .308s the blast knocked the chrono over and breaking it ( )...it wasn't a 'full Ovenpaa' (as I didn't actually hit it), but still embarrassing...the range RO was really nice about it though, just saying that they needed a better stand for it.

Sorry if this is a bit unnecessary, but I want to give you guys the full results in the hope you can help me interpret them and suggest the next step...

.303 results - 5 shots of each load - first with a seating depth of 3.130" (35 thou back from the lands)

20 gn Viht 120 - Average of 1558 fps, and a difference (between fastest and slowest) of 68 fps.
21 gn - Ave 1614 Dif 20
22 gn - Ave 1684 Dif 15
23 gn - Ave 1760 Dif 21

Then 5 shots with some deeper seated (3.030") possible magazine loads

20 gn - Ave 1545 Dif 51
21 gn - Ave 1606 Dif 37

6.5 x 55 results - 5 shots of each load - all with a seating depth of 3.000" (this is 25 thou deeper than the Lyman manual suggests, as I wasn't sure of the jump), and again with Viht N120.

16 gn - Ave 1620 Dif 57
17 gn - Ave 1691 Dif 28
18 gn - Ave 1778 Dif 19

I was generally very happy with the results, and really thank you gentlemen for your advice; which has got me right into the desired velocities on the first attempt

One problem I did have was with the seating - I was using the same dies that I use to seat my jacketed bullets - I found that due to the longer OALs and the extra width of the cast boolits, that they stuck in the die - So the only way I could seat them was to wind the stem right down and back the body of the die well out...but this meant that the boolits were not supported while being seated - Until I got the hang of getting them in straight, some of the first batch (for both .303 and 6.5) were 'shaved'...

...so when you look at the much bigger difference in the velocities of the first batches of both; would this be due to poor seating, or because they were the first ones down a clean barrel?

This leads inevitably to more questions - How do you guys go about your seating? and do you use standard dies or different ones for cast boolits?

And, what is you cleaning routine after cast shooting...a full clean with solvent and patches; or a lesser clean that leaves some lead in?

I've got a chance to try them at 200 yards next weekend; and was going to concentrate on group testing loads for the .303 between 21 and 22 gns, and between 17 and 18 for the Mauser...then continue improving them them by experimenting with the seating depths a bit more...what d'ya recon...?

[phaedra1106]

I had a bit of a problem loading soupcan type cast boolits using my 300 Blackout seating die as it's designed for nice pointy jacketed bullets and would occassionaly get a cast boolit stuck in it.

Simple answer was to get a spare seating die seat plug and fill the "cavity" with Milliput 2 part structural epoxy then press a round ball (8mm ball bearing) into it before it set. Now instead of having a conical shaped cavity it has a much shorter concave cavity that the boolit cannot get stuck in, if that makes any sense!.

[dromia]

Good results and a good velocity range now only the groups will tell.

Don't dismiss the widely spread loads till you have shot for group, some of my best loads that have extreme spreads that on the face of it would be an embarrassment.

Seating dies for general shooting I use Lee seating dies a calibre up from the one you are using so for 303 I use 8mm. I then make an epoxy nose seater onto the existing seater to fit the profile mush the same way as you'd make a seating stem for a lubesizer. You'd be surprised at how little run out you can get with this method

For longer range accuracy loads I use Vickerman style dies cut to fit my boolit diameters.

I'd settle on one seating depth doesn't matter which for your next batch and find which load groups best then experiment with the seating depth with that loadI

If you change more than one thing at a time you will learn nothing.

I don't think seating depth is as critical in most cases with cast as it seems to be with condoms, especially in military rifles where the freebore is relatively generous. Concentricity and consistent, batch weighed, quality made boolits are more important than seating depth for accuracy with cast.

Cleaning a pass with a wet patch of Eds Red followed by a couple of dry patches, I leave my bores unoiled but if you like them oiled then a patch of that with a dry pull though before shooting.

There should be no lead in your barrel, if there is you have a problem, a grey wash perhaps but no visible leading of any kind should be in there. Proper lead boolits leave far less fouling than condoms, its the lube that seasons the bore.

[dromia]

Following on from Jeff's post I make a stem to fit the nose profile of the boolit by using, a boolit.

[Dougan]

OK I'll try all the same loads again, with the same seating depth (will experiment with deeper magazine loads later) at 200 for grouping next weekend.

So I need to adapt the seater (thanks for you're input on that one Phaedra) - I won't be able to sort this for the next batch (will just have to be careful), but I'll get some cheap, slightly larger dies, for the lot after next...

...right then, back out to the man cave to get ready for next Saturday...I'd say 'no rest for the wicked'...but I'm enjoying the process

[phaedra1106]

Adam, when are you next doing any casting?, I'm becoming tempted to learn the dark arts!
As I'm off to the US in December it's a good excuse to pick up even more kit :lol:

[dromia]

Usually a Tuesday for the Pukka Bundhooks casting aficionados clique to meet and pour lead but things are a bit loose at the moment with holidays and such like, best to look at a Tuesday in early September as we will be getting back on track by then perhaps.

[Alpha1]

I use edds red to clean my barrels after using cast boolits. I have started making my own seating dies for use with a arbor press. As Adam says I have never worried to much about cartridge overall length with military rifles.
Good work keep it up.