Any solicitors/ legal advisors?

[artiglio]

Morning Sim G,

Unfortunately even though the person in question is an RFD, it is more likely that the sale was on a private basis, and from the various discussions I've had (admittedly from helplines and cab) the claim would be against him rather than his business interests, this would hinge on how the rifle and barrels were held on his Certs. Information I cannot access. However if the correct advice can be had for a reasonable fee maybe I need to go down this route rather than try to do it myself. Another avenue to explore.

Cheers phil

[Chapuis]

You say you can't access the information, yet surely you will have an entry on your own certificate which will indicate what authority he had to hold the rifle?
You should be able to ascertain if the transfer was from his own personal certificate or from his RFD!

Either way if he has sold you a rifle that is not proven he has committed an offence. Also you say you can prove a false description was given.

I would say that you have had some good advise from the some of the guys on this site and that now most of the facts have emerged, if you put in the effort you should have a good chance of resolving this issue to your satisfaction.

[Robin128]

It matters not whether it was a private sale...Chief Constable can pull his licence even if it is alleged he spat on the pavement...which sounds like that is his calibre...getting off cheating and surfing this forum.

I'll say this...cheat someone and it gets around like wildfire...see what happens to his trade if this is all true. He'll be the looser.

[TobyH]

I'm with Robin on this one, if there is a threat that this chap can lose his license from his FAO he's taking a big risk by not sorting the issue out. This way you won't need to go through the legal system at all.

Certainly as a first step anyway, won't cost you anything but a couple of letters recorded. First one to him saying what you're going to do, second one to the FAO saying what's happend if he doesn't agree. At least if nothing comes of that you can then go through the Small Claims Court anyway.

[Chuck]

He won't answer,letters,emails,texts,phone calls . Caught him out ,and got him to answer phone and as soon as he knew who it was hung up.

As far as I know "keeping house" i.e avoiding creditors - which you would now appear to be in some way - was an act of bankruptcy but that's a technicality.

As pointed out, the FAC number will show whether it is a personal or business sale....and whether it was what you were led to believe, i.e. were you buying privately or from an RFD.

As for puting the claim in and seeing what happens, that might not be a bad idea, if the petition is deemed incompetent then it will be returned to you...Just get the papers and trun up with them at the County Court, the Court Clerk will keep you right Lawyers can cost a lot of dosh and get you nowhere. some are good many are not. I take it you have said in your letters what courses of action you want.

It is time now to do another letter pointing out that he has failed to respond to your reasonable requests on x number of occasions (hope you kept all the correspondence, forget phone calls they are no use now) and that you now demand a full refund of all monies paid for the goods which were not as described at point of sale. If he has used his RFD cert then you might have a claim against the business, what is the trading style, is it limited??. Remember that a sole trader and private person are pretty much one in the same thing irrespective of the name above the door, he is PERSONALLY liable as a sole trader. Depending on how much money is involved, and I am not sure of the limits, it might be quicker and CHEAPER to serve a Statutory Demand under the (appropriate) Bankruptcy Act to get his attention. Pity he is not in Scotland, would be so much easier for me to advise on this.

As it is, you are pretty much out of letters now. The next step is a letter from someone acting on your behalf, whether it is trading standards, a lawyer or a reputable debt collector or advice agency. Whatever you say you will do in your letter, do it. if you do NOT do it he can safely ignore you as you will in all probability let it go.Not a swipe at you Artiglio, that's just what happens when people seem to be getting nowhere.

So, last letter, demand a full refund, pioint out ALL dates you have tried to contact him and finally what you WILL do if he fails to respond in 5 working days. Send it recorded and keep a copy and put on the top cc: HIS FLO, Trading Standards etc etc. Pity we cannot name names eh!
Chuck

[artiglio]

Good Day People'

A quick update,

I have contacted the second name on the RFD used to transfer the rifle and barrels and his records show that the "gentleman" in question transferred the rifle and barrels from his own FAC to his RFD cert for the transfer to my local RFD. So this as far as I'm concerned makes it a private sale that unfortunately involves his business partner.

As suggested I contacted the Northern Ireland police Service (NIPS)firearms dept. who take the view that it is a civil matter. My own local FEO takes the view that a registered RFD is not behaving in a appropriate manner and should I prove the case I should refer judgement back to the NIPS.

I will be serving paperwork for a small claims process through my local county court and will keep you all informed.

I am confident of a favourable outcome (though obtaining payment may well be more problematic) and as soon as I have one , I will name the individual on this and other forums he frequents and with a little luck with regard to timing this should if nothing else raise a few eyebrows at an important upcoming shoot in Ireland.

Again many thanks for all the advice and support.

All the best phil

[Robin128]

I have contacted the second name on the RFD used to transfer the rifle and barrels and his records show that the "gentleman" in question transferred the rifle and barrels from his own FAC to his RFD cert for the transfer to my local RFD. So this as far as I'm concerned makes it a private sale that unfortunately involves his business partner.

...My own local FEO takes the view that a registered RFD is not behaving in a appropriate manner and should I prove the case I should refer judgement back to the NIPS...

Phil,

I'm not convinced that is a private sale given that it has gone thru the books of the NI RFD. If you paid anything to the NI RFD that is consideration in contract law, and thereby evidences a contract with the NI RFD. That would make it a business sale not a private sale. I read contract law. In addition, your local RFD is right...that's what I have been telling you.

If I were you I would talk to your own FEO again...he can put preasure on NI RFD and watch an out of court settlement offer come your way.

[Chuck]

As rfob says, who did you actually PAY? Of course this is messy but you weant to sort it BEFORE you raise an action against the wrong person.

Look at all the essentials of a valid contract, not just the consideration (or money). If he was a limited company but took the osh to himself tehn he has tolenfrom trh company..he is an employee ad the compoany IS a third party.

If he is a sole trader then sue him as joe Tw@t t/a Unreliable Gun Dealer.. did he give the impression he was selling as an RFD or private individual??

Get on to Trading Standards, the goods are NOT as described and yu have tried to reason, have you done the recorded deliveries as I suggested - you cannot have too much in writing now.. your complaints to the police should also have been in writing to show that you have tried ALL avenues of recourse thus necessitating court action. As I said the police will see this as a civil dispute and your own FLO will not want to act on what is strictly speaking a commercial dispute.

Did he acquire on his RFD licence then sell to you privately... sounds like potential money laundering here? Why would he do that if not to palm off a dodgy product that maybe HE had been caught out with....?

[artiglio]

Afternoon ladies and gents ( another update)

Following more of the advice and pointers above,

I got back to the second name on the RFD ticket, it appears my "gentleman" was a business partner who has not been seen since Christmas, the second name assures me that the bank account I transferred money to has nothing to do with the RFD business, ( the bank details I received only showed the vendors name)

I have also been in touch with the gunsmith that built the rifle and supplied the barrels, these were built/ supplied under a loose sponsorship arrangement, and that he had not supplied sufficient barrels for there to have been 2 new spares available and that if they were engraved with his logo ( which they are) he would suspect they were worn out.

Looking at the Diggle results from Mik, my "gent" did not shoot this round of the league.

I've downloaded and filled in the forms and will be taking them to my local county court tomorrow.

Again thanks for all your hints/tips and suggestions, fingers crossed.

Regards phil

[Robin128]

Good Luck!

:)